[G] TvZ 2 base Marauder Hellion opening - Page 2

On February 03 2012 08:39 roymarthyup wrote:
i do something similar to this. marauders and hellions are great, however you dont need stim because marauders without stim are still super strong. instead, make steady amounts of marauder/hellion WHILE pumping out insane economy, and then expect when mutas will arrive based upon how many lings/spines the zerg has to defend your marauder/hellion

as long as you dont skimp on economy, you can always have enough defense ready for when mutas arrive, and marauders and hellions are never bad units to have (marauders tank banelings easy, 10hellions can kill 100lings easily). i normally stop at about 10 marauders

so pretty much, make normal amounts of marauders and hellions while expanding and pumping economy. eventualy get 3 bases and defend 3 frons with marines/some turrets / some thors. get maybe 3-4 tanks (thats it) on 3 bases and be defensive then get 200food containing 10hellions, 10marauders, 4tanks, and EVERYTHING ELSE is marines, thors, ghosts, and vikings (for anti-broodlord) then march your 200food deathball across the map with 2ravens for PDD against muta/corrupter and just destroy the zerg and any broodlords he has.

because you have marauders and hellions, you no longer need to use siege mode as a crutch against a 200food zerg, because marauders/hellions destroy ling/bane anyway. so just walk across the map not worrying about siegemode and destroy the zergs 200food army and win

On February 03 2012 08:42 AdrianHealey wrote:
I have encoutered this build several times and I really don't have a problem beating it, if I scout it on time. (Sometimes I scout to late, when overlord path was wrong on a 4 spawn map or something.) Given that they have marauder-hellion, it is not really possible to stop a scouting overlord. Adapt accordingly and you should be ahead.

Edit: obviously; I am not that high a level player, neither are my opponents.

On February 03 2012 09:00 rauk wrote:


uh no.

On February 03 2012 09:00 rauk wrote:


uh no



it's not really a build that you "beat" by making the right units. you just have to micro better with lings and queens and not make too many spines, because i'm just going to make a 3rd CC if you make too many.

On February 03 2012 09:26 roymarthyup wrote:



i dont understand why you are saying no. the 4tanks/some marauders / some hellions / + 2 ravens + mass ghost/viking/thor/marine is normally the TvZ endgame army of choice for top terrans such as MVP or MMA or Gumiho

i dont understand why you are saying no. are you saying a terran should be going for a different endgame army? are you saying marauders are bad? what exactly do you mean?

On February 03 2012 09:39 rauk wrote:


investing in that many marauders means your marine production is going to be extremely late so you need to allin or die to mutas. you have zero map control once his mutas are out and he can take as many bases as he likes. spending so much money in marauders also delays your tank production. you need tanks to be aggressive against a mutaling baneling player, and for defending against big roach/baneling attacks when zerg has baneling speed. such late tank production means you need to go 2fac tank to catch up, and 2fac tank means you're cutting something else crucial, whether it's upgrades, econ, or marines.

turtling is only really strong against super super aggro zergs because you can't out-eco zerg, and if you want to turtle you want then you want a lot of tanks, not hellions.

so basically i don't like being passive against zerg, and i don't like being absolutely useless for 10 minutes in the midgame while zerg is running around with mutas and taking every base while you have 10 marines against 20 mutas.

also hellions are of limited use in midgame tvz unless you have either a shit ton of them or igniter, both of which means you're skipping something else important. marauder hellion MIGHT beat ling baneling, but if zerg has mutas there's no reason to attack with his ground army. if he goes infestor marauder hellion definitely loses to ling baneling.

On February 03 2012 10:13 roymarthyup wrote:


im talking about lategame TvZ army. i pretty much suggest doing what all the top terrans are already doing, you want some marauders and hellions incase of massive swarms of lings or if theres some ultras, then everything else is mass viking/ghost/marine/thor with a couple tanks and maybe 2 ravens for PDD to complete the endgame army

all im really talking about is the endgame army part of my post. are you saying thats bad, or are you just saying everything else in my post besides that is bad?

On February 03 2012 08:39 roymarthyup wrote:
i do something similar to this. marauders and hellions are great, however you dont need stim because marauders without stim are still super strong. instead, make steady amounts of marauder/hellion WHILE pumping out insane economy, and then expect when mutas will arrive based upon how many lings/spines the zerg has to defend your marauder/hellion

as long as you dont skimp on economy, you can always have enough defense ready for when mutas arrive, and marauders and hellions are never bad units to have (marauders tank banelings easy, 10hellions can kill 100lings easily). i normally stop at about 10 marauders

so pretty much, make normal amounts of marauders and hellions while expanding and pumping economy. eventualy get 3 bases and defend 3 frons with marines/some turrets / some thors. get maybe 3-4 tanks (thats it) on 3 bases and be defensive then get 200food containing 10hellions, 10marauders, 4tanks, and EVERYTHING ELSE is marines, thors, ghosts, and vikings (for anti-broodlord) then march your 200food deathball across the map with 2ravens for PDD against muta/corrupter and just destroy the zerg and any broodlords he has.

because you have marauders and hellions, you no longer need to use siege mode as a crutch against a 200food zerg, because marauders/hellions destroy ling/bane anyway. so just walk across the map not worrying about siegemode and destroy the zergs 200food army and win