EPTI haven't hit reapers for a few days, mostly its been hellions. I've been responding to hellions by building 1-2 bunkers depending on how open the nat is and getting tanks before starport instead of after. Not sure if this really works though or if its just worked for me due to mis controls of the hellions.
[D] thorzain's TvT vs banshees - Page 2
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General_Winter
United States719 Posts
I haven't hit reapers for a few days, mostly its been hellions. I've been responding to hellions by building 1-2 bunkers depending on how open the nat is and getting tanks before starport instead of after. Not sure if this really works though or if its just worked for me due to mis controls of the hellions. | ||
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DrewRaynor
Canada7 Posts
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On January 19 2012 13:03 Jazzman88 wrote: I've attempted this build, but I've had some difficulties with 2-tank pushes whereas it shuts banshees down completely (see earlier suggestions as to why - that about covers my strategies). What are others feelings about your opponent quick pushing with siege mode + 1 viking? Against siege mode, as with all marine-focused early-game builds, you'll have to force an engagement when he's unsieged and bum-rush with marines and SCVs if needed. SeleCT does this really well, there was a game against MVP on Xel'Naga Caverns where MVP went early tanks, and SeleCT was only on marine hellion, so SeleCT bided time for stim, and surrounded MVP's units while dropping marines from medivacs on top of the siege tanks. The viking was able to kill his Medivac, but most of the marines were already dropped. | ||
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Deleted User 109835
629 Posts
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smaug81243
94 Posts
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dementrio
678 Posts
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ContactKilla
United States194 Posts
2 tank push is not scary at all with this build if you never get supply blocked | ||
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
My own problem with this build: I can't seem to be able to defend myself against marine-only rushes. It's hard to fend off a bioball or siege rush and I suppose it'd be near impossible to defend against a stim rush (I'm not presuming brilliant stutter step micro here) and I believe the 9 rax cheese (or possibly a 2 rax) would kill it without breaking a sweat. I suspect ladder optimisation may require bunkers. But this build side-tracked with bunkers may become inferior to builds which incorporate stationary defences by design. Word of advice with banshees: don't presume this is just an opening. Banshee players sometimes soft-contain you with the banshees and expand in the background to get either a normal army or just more banshees, and sometimes battlecruisers. With depleted OC energy and unguarded turrets, a surprise raid of several banshees can do damage, as well as a sudden appearance of, say, 5 battlecruisers (though he may well be trying to get a lot of them along with upgrades behind the monkey business banshee harass, as I used to do). | ||
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yaRus
Russian Federation68 Posts
And when it comes to late game, mass hellions can counter any drops by me and can affectivily counter far expansions while opponent gathering lots of tanks. So, the question is - how to counter mech oriented openers with this build? | ||
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KroN
Germany438 Posts
On February 03 2012 16:46 yaRus wrote: I still have lots of problems with this build playing against mech terran. BF Hellions in early and middle game counter marines very good and enemy can abuse lots of hellion drops. I cant aford alot of marauders, because i have 2 reactors. And when it comes to late game, mass hellions can counter any drops by me and can affectivily counter far expansions while opponent gathering lots of tanks. So, the question is - how to counter mech oriented openers with this build? i think you cannot continue to go marine/tank or you will mostly loose... hellions are too cost-efficient. if i see them going mech (more then 1 factory) i would swap the rax away from the reactors and build more techlabs.. you have to add in a good amount of marauders to survive against mech or go mech yourself. TL:DR you cannot with this build, you have to alter it to more RAX with Techlab. | ||
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Unhallowed
Canada171 Posts
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TumescentPie
United States28 Posts
However, let me give my fellow Terran buddies some advice on banshees - typically you want to keep 4-6 marines in a clump to chase the banshees. 4 marines is too many for a banshee to really take down. Be careful on the advice to "Just go attack" many times a banshee player will either have bunkers and/or tanks back home, so you may be running into a trap. Also, the walk paths are such that if you time it wrong the opponent may see it and queue a banshee just for defense, which means that the 1-2 that are in your base are still going to be in your base poking at your soft parts while the banshee at home cloaks and destroys your push. The way I look at banshees may be different than how other people look at them so I will explain my view. I see two basic types of banshee - Army Banshee and Harass Banshee. Each banshee you make can fall into either category, but you have to realize what the purpose of your tool is going to be. If you are making banshees before 10 minutes, they really need to be harass banshees first and then can fill the role of army banshees after they are no longer effective. If they are being made after 10 minutes, they better be able to be army banshees. The Harass Banshee needs to have 7 kills (preferably workers) before it dies to ensure that you are not behind. If you have less than 7 kills per banshee that you have made YOU ARE BEHIND!!!1!! (on noes). After a banshee has 7 kills, you can be careless with that banshee (or if you make 2 banshees then 14 kills total between the two). I am not saying that you can just throw it away, because it is now garbage, but I do mean that you can now prioritize your macro over your micro, and if the banshees don't make it, it isn't a big deal - but it is always nice to have them. The Army Banshee is one that is either part of your standard looking marine/tank army, vangards your mech army, or is the workhorse of your air Terran army. Army banshees don't have to do damage, and can do a little bit of mild harass, but their point is to force the opponent to get vikings and ravens, to build excessive turrets, and to otherwise crap the bed. If you and your opponent both charge into each other with a similar army size and they have a few extra marines to your 2-12 cloaked banshees, you will win the engagement in style. especially if you can force them out of scans before the engagement. I realize now that I have probably said too much, so hopefully if anyone reads this they get something out of it. Good luck, have fun. TL;DR - Banshees are better than cake. | ||
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nukkuj
Finland403 Posts
Reapers can be pain to deal with, depends on opponent's micro abilities. | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
Combat shield is not done in time for the arrival of the banshees so thats another reason to go turret heavy. Try your best to bother the banshees with marines because keep in mind if he is microing his banshees really hard his macro is suffering. Try not to commit with the marines because he is on a cloak time limit and its not that long before cloak will be gone. If hes good he will have a tank before you have stim up so the best thing to do is wait for dropships and drop his main, he shouldnt have enough to defend | ||
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RedMosquito
United States280 Posts
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ArkSC
128 Posts
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jisora
United States65 Posts
Replay please? Hold the towers. See the tanks coming. Pressure him and force the tanks to siege. Back off. Hit him when he unsieges to move forward. I'll assume this push came somewhat after 8:00 based on 3 tanks. At that point you should have 25+ marines, are adding 5 per cycle and have a far superior economy. Since he's going all-in, he needs to end it as quickly as possible. He doesn't have the luxury of leap-grogging his tanks methodically given how fast you're building marines. Use that to your advantage; the choice of either delaying or getting hit on the move is not a good choice for him. The problem comes when you don't bother with map vision and let them siege up at your natural before you have a chance to respond. | ||
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ArkSC
128 Posts
On February 06 2012 04:20 jisora wrote: @ Overlord Replay please? Hold the towers. See the tanks coming. Pressure him and force the tanks to siege. Back off. Hit him when he unsieges to move forward. I'll assume this push came somewhat after 8:00 based on 3 tanks. At that point you should have 25+ marines, are adding 5 per cycle and have a far superior economy. Since he's going all-in, he needs to end it as quickly as possible. He doesn't have the luxury of leap-grogging his tanks methodically given how fast you're building marines. Use that to your advantage; the choice of either delaying or getting hit on the move is not a good choice for him. The problem comes when you don't bother with map vision and let them siege up at your natural before you have a chance to respond. I always have the tower, but i wait until he comes to my natural. I feel that if i even engaged when he was unsieged he would still win because im being hit just before stim is done or 1/1. so even with my larger rine count, the banshee would wreck me along with tanks and his marines. | ||
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Nanaki
Belgium12 Posts
One problem I've had had nothing to do with HotS units. the other guy was massing marines and tanks of of one base, from two barracks (one reactor), and 1 factory. He didn't have an orbital up yet, and pushed around the 930 minute mark. I had 3 rax, 2 orbitals up, producing 5 marines at a time. In the end I had 5 orso more marines with superior upgrades but no tanks. He had 4 and tore me to shreds. Considering his push came well after the 5 minute mark, I should have had an advantage. But replaying made it obvious something had to change in the build. So I decided on this: - Scout expansion timing when factory starts. Your scout will arrive just before your factory finishes. If I see no expansion, instead of adding a reactor (for the starport), I add a tech lab, for earlier tank production. When the factory starts around 635, I should have 2 tanks by the time this... dare I say timing push, arrives. I probably should've also built some bunkers, but they don't fare well against siege tanks I guess. Secondly, I see a lot of people with reaper harass problems. Since of HotS reapers became more viable an option, requiring no addon. Does this change the face of TvT considerably? Or can I with minor changes still cling onto this neato build? Some thoughts. Fire away. Ow, and third. Drops to advance the siege line, have just been increased in efficiency thanks to medivac boost. The Siege tech doesn't require research anymore, so I see this as two pros for keeping this strategy in HotS. | ||
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