EPT[G] PvP - 4 Gate is Dead - Page 5
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BestFriends
Canada133 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
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Mstring
Australia510 Posts
On January 12 2012 01:23 Tansu wrote: Did you try this with Alej's build? So that defender has 2 stalkers and 1 zealot? And when you have tested it with your brother, it is a lot easier to be ready to target the probes because you know what is coming. Yes, 2 stalkers 1 zealot vs 1 stalker 1 zealot 2 probes. Now that I've practiced it I feel confident I can reproduce the defense on the ladder. If you are going to the trouble of get the fast second stalker then you should watch your ramp at the right time for probes. It's not a matter of difficulty, just prioritising your focus. On January 12 2012 01:23 Tansu wrote: In the GaHoDeaDoX - Chrono game if GaHo had had 2 probes, there would have been quite a big chance of 1 probe getting into the opponent base. Where can I find this game? You only need 4 volleys with the stalkers to take out both probes... high ground is a long way to run. | ||
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Geiko
France2052 Posts
On January 12 2012 01:34 iamke55 wrote: 12 gate 17 core is very, very ambitious. Can you pull this off 100% of the time if you practice probe stacking? If you don't gateway scout there is absolutely no problem. If you gateway scout it's only possible on maps like XNC with probe micro (without cutting probes) | ||
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Draft
United States26 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On January 12 2012 01:34 iamke55 wrote: 12 gate 17 core is very, very ambitious. Can you pull this off 100% of the time if you practice probe stacking? 12 gate 17 core is pretty doable with 12 scout as well. if you scout on 2nd pylon or core, you should have no problem getting a 17 core that is exactly the same timing as a would-be 16 core; you have 200 mins with no probe in queue when the gate finishes with good probe stacking. to practice your probe stacking is a must for protoss player imo | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On January 12 2012 01:49 Draft wrote: I could of missed it, but did anyone address how it handles a good warprism 4 gate? you missed it TT | ||
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Tansu
Finland63 Posts
On January 12 2012 01:43 Mstring wrote: Where can I find this game? You only need 4 volleys with the stalkers to take out both probes... high ground is a long way to run. Click the first "Show spoiler" thing in the Alejandrisha's post and then click the "this thread" link. There you can find the game in which the defending wouldnt have been that easy if there were 2 probes (maybe possible though, not sure...) And to make it harder to target the probes with really good micro you could maybe click the minerals so that probes are moving under the stalker and zealot a short distance. | ||
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Feos
Germany71 Posts
On January 11 2012 05:08 kcdc wrote: Yeah, I'm not sure I like that opening. I don't know why it gets 3 stalkers before the sentry when 2 is enough, and I don't really love chronoboosting my gate since speeding resources spent in your gateway slows your extra buildings. I like Alej's 1 gate twilight opening better, and I'll probably try to adapt it to get a stargate instead of a twilight. That is, unless Alej has a perfectly fine-tuned build order for me to just copy. i'm sorry but where is axslav getting 3 stalkers before sentry? :< you said that twice so i really wonder if you just misread | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On January 11 2012 19:13 Xequecal wrote: "Don't scout until late" is still the worst advice you can possibly give for PvP. Scout on 9, every time. 1/5 ladder Protoss will proxy gate or cannon rush you, and if you don't scout that before you put your core down it's game over. These builds also straight up die to DT rush, you're not scouting early enough and immortal before obs + no chrono boosts means they will depower your robo before the obs pops out. well fuck i guess these builds have no value and i apologize for making you read the 8 words of the op you seemed to skim over considering the wealth of evidence you have provided for your claims, i | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
Just an idea. | ||
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GoldenH
1115 Posts
 You must definitely scout your base when you throw down your gateway, but I agree there's no point to see the other player's base until their cyber core is finished, but I still must pylon scout on large maps. | ||
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Mstring
Australia510 Posts
On January 12 2012 02:01 Tansu wrote: Click the first "Show spoiler" thing in the Alejandrisha's post and then click the "this thread" link. There you can find the game in which the defending wouldnt have been that easy if there were 2 probes (maybe possible though, not sure...) And to make it harder to target the probes with really good micro you could maybe click the minerals so that probes are moving under the stalker and zealot a short distance. Maybe indeed. Try it with a practice partner and find out for sure. I think in that replay, with better stalker formation and their own control group, that first probe could have been dead before placing a single pylon. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On January 12 2012 02:14 kcdc wrote: Alej, I was trying stargate BO's, and I think it makes sense to save an extra chrono on nexus (cut the one at 11 supply), get the 2nd gas before the zealot, and use the extra chrono on the gate to make up the production lag of not starting the zealot on time. This lets you mine a little extra gas which can be used to get your SG a little sooner and start phoenix production without playing risky with your 4th sentry. Just an idea. i'll run it a few times, thanks. just want to make sure it doesn't mess up with zealot stalker stalker timings too much. when are you scouting with this? i was able to get a bit extra gas by getting 1st gas on 13 and holding the 2nd cb on nexus until after i put the gas down. i don't know if i like cutting the 2nd cb on nexus altogether. will continue looking at this. in the case of getting 4gated with the 1 gate sg build, i see no problem in cutting the first phoenix until you have 4 sentries out. not like he's going to catch up after the 4g fails :D | ||
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Fenneth
Australia354 Posts
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-TesteR-
Canada1165 Posts
On January 11 2012 03:11 ShatterZer0 wrote: Rest in Peace? More like: Writhe in Terror. 4 Gate will always be viable at a Pro level I think... just because getting an advantage is so hard in PvP that most pros will be willing to take a gamble... a gamble that will leave them open to 4 gate. Hopefully this means less 4 gate on ladder though... Yup, just recently MC 4gated JYP in HSC on Metalopolis. It failed miserably but he followed it up with good warp prism transition. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
i was hoping to learn some stuff by going through those vods, but nothing really stuck out | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On January 12 2012 02:20 Alejandrisha wrote: i'll run it a few times, thanks. just want to make sure it doesn't mess up with zealot stalker stalker timings too much. when are you scouting with this? i was able to get a bit extra gas by getting 1st gas on 13 and holding the 2nd cb on nexus until after i put the gas down. i don't know if i like cutting the 2nd cb on nexus altogether. will continue looking at this. in the case of getting 4gated with the 1 gate sg build, i see no problem in cutting the first phoenix until you have 4 sentries out. not like he's going to catch up after the 4g fails :D In my experience, the chrono on 11 supply doesn't do much since you wind up pausing probe production to get the gateway on 12 anyway. The length of the probe production cut will depend on your worker micro and the number of close patches, but it can negate most of the 10 seconds that spending the chrono gives you. A lot of 12 gate builds use a chrono there even tho it's partially wasted because there's not a better way to use it, but in this case, getting a little extra gas seems like a better use. I was scouting after core, but I don't think that changes the chronoboost dynamic. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
are you trying to get extra gas to squeeze in the 1st phoenix while still getting the 4th sentry in time? | ||
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guanzo
15 Posts
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