EPT
[G] PvP - 4 Gate is Dead - Page 7
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
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sebsejr
213 Posts
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-iNko
Lithuania160 Posts
thx | ||
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Linoge
Hungary115 Posts
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SaroVati
Canada280 Posts
On January 13 2012 18:40 soLremarK wrote: I have a pretty competent 4-gate I think, I'd be glad to play a few games with you to test out your builds. You can message me on battle.net at ioRemarK.771 anytime I am on If you manage to practice a few games out, pm me and I'll try my 3 gate pressure and see if he's behind economically as well :> But i vouch for remark, his 4 gate is as strong as any 4 gate you'll face. | ||
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Treehead
999 Posts
On January 11 2012 01:08 Alejandrisha wrote: I'm opening this one up to you guys. If you think your 4gate is good, shoot me a pm and I'd be happy to stamp it out with this build :D And your replays will go right here! Also if you have the the 11gate into 3 gate pressure build down pretty well, I'd like to run this against that a bunch of times as well. I wish my 3-gate were better, but I'm not very good unfortunately. | ||
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soapyy.
United States103 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On January 13 2012 18:40 soLremarK wrote: I have a pretty competent 4-gate I think, I'd be glad to play a few games with you to test out your builds. You can message me on battle.net at ioRemarK.771 anytime I am on k bout to log on and add you thanks for your response | ||
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Dauntless
Norway548 Posts
Also, it'd be nice to see some replays with 1g SG and 2g SG =) | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On January 14 2012 03:09 Dauntless wrote: I only want to thank you for an amazing guide. I read it all while watching the replays and trying to understand the reasoning behind it all. Gonna try to practice out the build orders when I have time. Also, it'd be nice to see some replays with 1g SG and 2g SG =) BAM! 1g sg vs 1g robo - robo blink on maps where you're forced to scout earlier (12), don't be afraid to use the information you get and be a little more greedy when appropriate. here, he cb'd his nexus a third time so i felt fine moving out without worrying about a probe sneaking behind the front lines. then, i see a sentry so i feel free to cut mine, and cut my 3rd gate as well. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
here was a pretty good example http://drop.sc/91204 his 4gate is off of an 11 gate so it wg comes a few seconds faster than usual. however, this means his approach is a bit weaker because he needs to cut the zealot to get the gateways up in time. to account for this, he brings 2 probes. so long as you timely take down the probes and cancel any above ground pylons (shouldn't be hard because the approach cuts units), the safe build should beat it 100% of the time. also note: you'll see I don't scout as early as I ought to on xel'naga. the only reason we used xel'naga was because it is the hardest to map on which to effectively zone the approach edit: leave your char code here or pm me with it if you feel confident in your 4gate and you'd like to do this with me. i'd be glad to play some games with you | ||
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quillian
United States318 Posts
re - 10 gate > 3 gate wg cheese, I'm maybe 95% on executing this build but I'd be happy to try it, as I want you to be right =) The theoretical build is like this: 9 pylon 10 gateway 10 probe* 13 assimilator > transfer 3 14 scout 14 cybernetics core 15 zealot 17 pylon @100 gas put 1 probe on minerals 18 warpgate***** 18 stalker 21 gateway [2] 21 put 1 probe on gas 22 stalker 26 pylon 26 transform to warpgate [3] 26 stalker [3] 32 pylon 32 zealot [3] It's extremely tight and can be tough to execute perfectly (gas micro isn't necessary, but helps ideally), but it demands even tighter play from your opponent to not die. The difference from a normal 3/4 gate is you can place the first proxy pylon more conservatively away from their ramp, and warp in a round of stalkers before placing your forward pylon at the ramp to warp in zealots on the high ground. You can be very conservative/careful with your probe for the first pylon as it just has to be nearby. When you push for the 2nd pylon, you have cover from 5 stalkers and a zealot at the normal time a 4 gate would have just 1s 1z. this makes it pretty certain to place the forward pylon before the probe is sniped. With your build, I'm not sure if you can get zealot stalker stalker sentry out in time to FF ramp when he first pokes. Maybe if you cb 2nd stalker and sentry, but this leaves less for WG. If you cut one of the stalkers, though, and go for faster sentry it might hold. I'm a bit busy this weekend but could run some tests sun/monday maybe | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On January 14 2012 04:31 quillian wrote: Love all the details for different tech transition, thanks for continuing to update this! re - 10 gate > 3 gate wg cheese, I'm maybe 95% on executing this build but I'd be happy to try it, as I want you to be right =) The theoretical build is like this: 9 pylon 10 gateway 10 probe* 13 assimilator > transfer 3 14 scout 14 cybernetics core 15 zealot 17 pylon @100 gas put 1 probe on minerals 18 warpgate***** 18 stalker 21 gateway [2] 21 put 1 probe on gas 22 stalker 26 pylon 26 transform to warpgate [3] 26 stalker [3] 32 pylon 32 zealot [3] It's extremely tight and can be tough to execute perfectly, but it demands even tighter play from your opponent to not die. The difference from a normal 3/4 gate is you can place the first proxy pylon more conservatively away from their ramp, and warp in a round of stalkers before placing your forward pylon at the ramp to warp in zealots on the high ground. You can be very conservative/careful with your probe for the first pylon as it just has to be nearby. When you push for the 2nd pylon, you have cover from 5 stalkers and a zealot at the normal time a 4 gate would have just 1s 1z. this makes it pretty certain to place the forward pylon before the probe is sniped. With your build, I'm not sure if you can get zealot stalker stalker sentry out in time to FF ramp when he first pokes. Maybe if you cb 2nd stalker and sentry, but this leaves less for WG. If you cut one of the stalkers, though, and go for faster sentry it might hold. I'm a bit busy this weekend but could run some tests sun/monday maybe sure! pm me your char code or leave it here. in the meantime i'll run this build to look at timings and such to see if it would be more effective than 11 gate with 5 cb on wg looks like i can warp in up to 4-5 seconds faster than the 11gate build. this is good because you can force the first forcefield faster, which might stop the 1gater from getting his 3rd sentry out in time for the 3rd forcefield. you really can't play safe with the 1st proxy pylon, though. you need to proxy those two pylons under the ramp to cut down on distance from warp in to getting vision of the ramp, forcing the first forcefield to go down. the first forcefield will be in time, but it cuts it so close that the 2nd and 3rd forcefields will be hard to hit timely. i might have to pull probes to deny vision up the ramp while the 2nd sentry is getting out, something i was considering for the 11gate build as well. hope to test it soon | ||
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quillian
United States318 Posts
My main worry is that since you don't scout, if you don't expect this and slack at all on sentry timing the FF won't be ready. Is it possible to play your build and be safe with an earlier scout? | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On January 14 2012 05:20 quillian wrote: ok it's good the sentry is out. Obviously pulling probes isn't ideal but if you can hold it off you are probably gaining an advantage over time. Compared to 11 gate 4 gate this build has 1 less gate and just relies on the super early timing, so each warp in you can hold you are evening it out a bit. My main worry is that since you don't scout, if you don't expect this and slack at all on sentry timing the FF won't be ready. Is it possible to play your build and be safe with an earlier scout? 1st sentry will be out at the same time regardless of the scout. the 2nd sentry will be out at the same time regardless of scout as well, as the only variation to get it faster is a 4th cb on WG which happens after i see the pylon(s). if you're 4gating me and i don't see pylons below my ramp until it's too late for me to cb my wg accordingly, i'm not worried as you can't threaten an above ramp warp-in before i already have my 2nd sentry is out. nani build too genius O_O | ||
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libum1
Canada5 Posts
- I learned protoss in masters, as random - I lose ~80% of my pvp's - you sir, are a god. Thank-you for this amazing and in-depth post that has significantly built my understanding of this god-forsaken race | ||
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dtmwerks
8 Posts
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
But: really hard 4 gates played by high gm players are still amazingly hard to hold with 2 gate tech-builds. with 3 gates you are on the safer site. PvP will always be a bit problematic, since: greedy build > safe build > 4 gate > greedy build if everything goes "normal" | ||
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Sex plz. | ||
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BlueBoxSC
United States582 Posts
On January 14 2012 01:20 soapyy. wrote: I would agree that 4 gate is pretty easy to beat now.. Just 3 gate robo get 2 immortals and win! I thought that was the consensus. ☻.☻ | ||
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