|
On January 11 2012 16:40 CecilSunkure wrote:
Very cool was playing with the idea of scouting really late and using the extra minerals to do get out an additional Stalker and go 1 Gate Twilight most of my games. Survived a 4 Gate without making a single Sentry (blink finished in time) and then the other games my Blink timing was just earlier than prepared for resulting in timing attack wins. Pretty cool idea. Only thing is not sure what to do vs proxy 2 Gate?
beat 6 stalker 1 zealot at 5:40 with 1 gate twilight??? replay plzzzz O_O
if i fear a 2 gate proxy on a map, I will either scout for proxy on 12 then return to mining.. slightly slower timings but at least not embarrassing loss to 2 gate proxy ^^
that or I will use a different more flexible build. on antigua you can 2nd pylon or core scout thru middle. if they proxy there, which i have seen, you can defend it with cb on units just because the walk distance is so long. on metal/shak/xel i'm not going to risk waiting til 15 because the proxy locations are much closer
|
On January 11 2012 17:28 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:40 CecilSunkure wrote:
Very cool was playing with the idea of scouting really late and using the extra minerals to do get out an additional Stalker and go 1 Gate Twilight most of my games. Survived a 4 Gate without making a single Sentry (blink finished in time) and then the other games my Blink timing was just earlier than prepared for resulting in timing attack wins. Pretty cool idea. Only thing is not sure what to do vs proxy 2 Gate? beat 6 stalker 1 zealot at 5:40 with 1 gate twilight??? replay plzzzz O_O if i fear a 2 gate proxy on a map, I will either scout for proxy on 12 then return to mining.. slightly slower timings but at least not embarrassing loss to 2 gate proxy ^^ that or I will use a different more flexible build. on antigua you can 2nd pylon or core scout thru middle. if they proxy there, which i have seen, you can defend it with cb on units just because the walk distance is so long. on metal/shak/xel i'm not going to risk waiting til 15 because the proxy locations are much closer
I watched again it was actually just 3 gate 2 gas Stalker allin so not too great of a replay, but I had a some cool micro once Blink finished 
http://drop.sc/89409
Then I beat a half proxy gate (yes one half of a proxy gate) with cool probe micro and ended up winning with Blink + DT. Also interesting game but not really build from this thread since aggression came so soon I had to deviate.
|
On January 11 2012 17:03 Selendis wrote:
I used to defend 4gates with sentries, then I took a warp in to the knee.
Every season, Pro-Tossers claim that 4gate is dead and every season I change my build to something more econ or techy as a result and die to a 4gate.
I am now convinced that 4-gate is immortal. You can never kill it. and if you think it's dead and lower your guard, it will bludgeon you to death. The only way to defeat the monster is to become the monster.
yes you must respect the animal. the 1 gate builds walk the line of spitting in the face of the beast, but the 2 gate builds respect 4g and should hold it 100% of the time as long as you hit your 4th chrono the second you recognize whassup and don't choke and mess up your build from then on
|
"Don't scout until late" is still the worst advice you can possibly give for PvP. Scout on 9, every time. 1/5 ladder Protoss will proxy gate or cannon rush you, and if you don't scout that before you put your core down it's game over.
These builds also straight up die to DT rush, you're not scouting early enough and immortal before obs + no chrono boosts means they will depower your robo before the obs pops out.
|
no this is also a counter to my beloved 11 gate 3 gate  - or ist it?
|
On January 11 2012 19:39 blowfish wrote:no this is also a counter to my beloved 11 gate 3 gate - or ist it?
We were talking about this earlier and i think not, although i have never played around with 11 gate myself i have seen it a few times and i am not sure how well this build would deal with it.
Naniwa like to for a slight wall with his cybercore and second pylon, and it might be that he holds it off by finishing the wall as in the picture here:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Naniwa's_no_scouting_Build_(vs._Protoss)
|
4 Gates is not anymore a "I will win on 90% of PvP if my enemy doesn't do the same" build
But it is still viable, with skill and map help or mind tricks
Do not missunderstand me, I really never liked the 4Gates on PvP, I tried always to use a tech build, contain and then win (sometimes worked fine, others not that well...)
I am glad to see the PvP stop being 4 Gates 90% of time, but it is still a viable All In, with less success rate, as it should be
|
Great builds! going to try them as soon as im home.
Now I need a build that holds off 4gate on Tal'darim.. Any ideas?
|
On January 11 2012 19:56 Deadstrider wrote:
Great builds! going to try them as soon as im home.
Now I need a build that holds off 4gate on Tal'darim.. Any ideas?
For the time being, you can try out this one, but i fear in a few months it would be figured out and countered. But maybe by then there will be another build, because i suspect that like me you have practiced 4 gating more than you would have liked to.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Bischu_Anti-4Gate_(vs._Protoss)
Plus the build is fun and you get so much rage from confused opponents who then that their 4 gate is always meant to work...
|
On January 11 2012 20:01 Surili wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 19:56 Deadstrider wrote:
Great builds! going to try them as soon as im home.
Now I need a build that holds off 4gate on Tal'darim.. Any ideas? For the time being, you can try out this one, but i fear in a few months it would be figured out and countered. But maybe by then there will be another build, because i suspect that like me you have practiced 4 gating more than you would have liked to. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Bischu_Anti-4Gate_(vs._Protoss)Plus the build is fun and you get so much rage from confused opponents who then that their 4 gate is always meant to work...
Looks cool, but do you go Robo before warpgate? That feels so strange tt, Im only plat so I think this will work like a charm!
|
On January 11 2012 20:07 Deadstrider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 20:01 Surili wrote:On January 11 2012 19:56 Deadstrider wrote:
Great builds! going to try them as soon as im home.
Now I need a build that holds off 4gate on Tal'darim.. Any ideas? For the time being, you can try out this one, but i fear in a few months it would be figured out and countered. But maybe by then there will be another build, because i suspect that like me you have practiced 4 gating more than you would have liked to. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Bischu_Anti-4Gate_(vs._Protoss)Plus the build is fun and you get so much rage from confused opponents who then that their 4 gate is always meant to work... Looks cool, but do you go Robo before warpgate? That feels so strange tt, Im only plat so I think this will work like a charm!
Yeah, but it is only like 8 gas, so the difference is seconds. The fact is warp gate isn't nearly as important as immortals in this build, so get the immortals first. If you are really good about your probe micro at the start and then put probes into gas the instant it finishes you have 150gas and approx 300 minerals just as the core is done so no problem.
|
|
|
I can't imagine it has any problem against Adel's build, especially if you follow the wall in method, and the same could possibly be used against the Korean 4 gate, which requires them getting into your base to place multiple pylons. I do not know, because i never see K4Gates anymore, nor the Adelscott no gas build.
Also, this build chrono boosts core for it's entire duration after only 2 chronos on probes, which should help against both builds.
Also, keep in mind that the PvP strategies on Liquipedia are well out of date, i am in the process of updating them over the next few days. Starting with putting in the 11 gate and newer versions of the 3 gate robo twilight builds.
|
nooo do not share the 11 gate to other platin players - I need those free wins
|
@Surili
when i think about it Korean 4 gate should not be a problem with that build. I only got in trouble against it if i skipt the zealot. Then its kinda hard to kill all the pylons since the stalker dps is so low.
well thx to Alejandrisha for the effort, this looks really promising, i will practice this build order further.
Is there any particular reason to build the "32 Immortal; chronoboost" if there is no 4 gate coming?
Building an observer first would be nice. Against Phoenix builds its not optimal to have a immortal out.
|
On January 11 2012 20:17 Surili wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 20:07 Deadstrider wrote:On January 11 2012 20:01 Surili wrote:On January 11 2012 19:56 Deadstrider wrote:
Great builds! going to try them as soon as im home.
Now I need a build that holds off 4gate on Tal'darim.. Any ideas? For the time being, you can try out this one, but i fear in a few months it would be figured out and countered. But maybe by then there will be another build, because i suspect that like me you have practiced 4 gating more than you would have liked to. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Bischu_Anti-4Gate_(vs._Protoss)Plus the build is fun and you get so much rage from confused opponents who then that their 4 gate is always meant to work... Looks cool, but do you go Robo before warpgate? That feels so strange tt, Im only plat so I think this will work like a charm! Yeah, but it is only like 8 gas, so the difference is seconds. The fact is warp gate isn't nearly as important as immortals in this build, so get the immortals first. If you are really good about your probe micro at the start and then put probes into gas the instant it finishes you have 150gas and approx 300 minerals just as the core is done so no problem.
Aah ok, will try the build when I get PvP on Tal'darim! Thanks!
|
Since the rush distance is so long on Tal'darim I dont think Adel's build is a problem, Zealots are sooo slow.. By that time most protoss already have a Stalker out..
|
I play in master league and I use 4gate in PvP and I have pretty good win rate with it. My 4gate is similar than what I've seen vileYong and Naniwa using. I attack with 1s1z and two probes so that my first pylon on low ground is placed at 5:15 and next pylon is on high ground. Do you Alej think that you could kill both my probes before one of them makes a pylon on high ground?
|
On January 12 2012 00:52 Tansu wrote:
I play in master league and I use 4gate in PvP and I have pretty good win rate with it. My 4gate is similar than what I've seen vileYong and Naniwa using. I attack with 1s1z and two probes so that my first pylon on low ground is placed at 5:15 and next pylon is on high ground. Do you Alej think that you could kill both my probes before one of them makes a pylon on high ground?
I tested this about 25 times with my brother and we found it was impossible to get pylons on the high ground if the defender is paying attention to the ramp.
|
On January 12 2012 01:09 Mstring wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:52 Tansu wrote:
I play in master league and I use 4gate in PvP and I have pretty good win rate with it. My 4gate is similar than what I've seen vileYong and Naniwa using. I attack with 1s1z and two probes so that my first pylon on low ground is placed at 5:15 and next pylon is on high ground. Do you Alej think that you could kill both my probes before one of them makes a pylon on high ground? I tested this about 25 times with my brother and we found it was impossible to get pylons on the high ground if the defender is paying attention to the ramp.
Did you try this with Alej's build? So that defender has 2 stalkers and 1 zealot? And when you have tested it with your brother, it is a lot easier to be ready to target the probes because you know what is coming.
In the GaHoDeaDoX - Chrono game if GaHo had had 2 probes, there would have been quite a big chance of 1 probe getting into the opponent base.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
