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[G] How to win - The ETA-Concept - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
meatybacon
Profile Joined April 2011
United States36 Posts
January 04 2012 05:20 GMT
#41
Thanks for this man! A great read!
SEA KarMa
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia452 Posts
January 04 2012 05:37 GMT
#42
really good simple put out guide. most people in higher leagues already know this, but they just didn't put it into an easy to read format, or just cbb to put the time and effort in. Great guide, now get better and go out of hospital soon
"terrible, terrible damage". terrible, terrible design.
KiLL_ORdeR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1518 Posts
January 04 2012 06:29 GMT
#43
Looks like an awesome guide. I'll have to finish it tomorrow when i've had sleep and I'm not an add child ^^.
In order to move forward, we must rid ourselves of that which holds us back. Check out my stream and give me tips! twitch.tv/intotheskyy
RoboBob
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States798 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-04 07:05:45
January 04 2012 06:40 GMT
#44
Great guide! I really liked the first half, breaking things down to Economy Technology and Army was really well done. Adding intangible resources like scouting information, map vision, and positioning into Army was especially eye-opening.

However I thought the second half (Examples) was wishy-washy. It feels like you tried to force those 3 principles into rock-paper-scissors. (Army beats Economy beats Technology beats Army) I think thats a really bad application, because it ignores skill differentials.

For example, I'm Terran playing against Protoss. I decide to open with 1 Rax FE, because I feel most comfortable in the lategame. I see my opponent going Nexus first. What should I do?

According to the last half of your guide, I should punish the Protoss for being more greedy by pumping up Army. What your guide fails to consider is my unique weakness, which is that I'm bad when it comes to early pushes. It also fails to consider my unique strength, which is a really strong lategame (relative to others in my league).

So in my case, it actually makes more sense for me to allow the Protoss to get away with his Nexus first, than it is to punish it. Yes, my opponent will end up with a small economic advantage over me. But I will pay that price 100% of the time in order to ensure that we move to the lategame where I can outclass him.

I suppose you *could* argue that I should try to punish with Army even though terrible at it, in order to improve my weakness. But there's a huge difference between playing to improve and playing to win. (and this is a thread on how to win)

This is especially true on the ladder, where you do not know the individual strengths and weaknesses of your opponents. In my previous example, the Protoss will probably THINK he's ahead by comparing the ETA between us. He'll definitely have more stuff than me. But what he cannot realize is that by moving towards the lategame he's also moving us towards a gamestate where I will overwhelm the small advantage I intentional gave him with my stronger relative skill.
dbald27
Profile Joined March 2011
United States49 Posts
January 04 2012 06:52 GMT
#45
awesome awesome post!!
only thing i'd like to see included is production capability, macro hatches, extra warpgates, barracks starports etc. its an important thing to manage for late game and timing pushes. i guess id put it in the technology area, but i think its important to note
also known as kintaro. UCD FIGHTING!!
dnld12
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States324 Posts
January 04 2012 07:04 GMT
#46
Very nice write up
When life gives you Stalkers, Get blink.
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
January 04 2012 07:06 GMT
#47
What a fantastic read! Thank you for giving me new insights :D
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
kraggy
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Denmark30 Posts
January 04 2012 07:09 GMT
#48
Really great writeup, only skimmed so far, but will read the rest later. So far really useful!
Remfire
Profile Joined October 2010
492 Posts
January 04 2012 07:11 GMT
#49
This is unbelievable, thank you for sharing it I am going to be referring to it a lot as the knowledge and advice is great. I think it applies to all kinds of players and its extremely useful. Thank you for your time and effort.
Theeakoz
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1114 Posts
January 04 2012 07:24 GMT
#50
this is really good, thanks.
Please change the luck dependancy of spawning locations on rotationally symmetric maps.
Czarnodziej
Profile Joined January 2011
Poland624 Posts
January 04 2012 07:33 GMT
#51
Outstanding guide.
warblob004
Profile Joined January 2011
United States198 Posts
January 04 2012 07:44 GMT
#52
Intriguing writeup, though the race blending gets a bit complicated between races. Protoss/Terran sort of mix Technology/Army, and Zerg mixes Economy with Army (building a hatch provides production)
Overall, very nice guide
"I have not failed; I've simply found 10,000 ways it won't work." ~Thomas Edison
BotD
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States136 Posts
January 04 2012 07:53 GMT
#53
This is an excellent approach to the game and I'll be recommending this to lots of my SC2 friends. Thanks!
what
HawaiianPig
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada5155 Posts
January 04 2012 07:54 GMT
#54
Wow, I haven't seen a guide this well written in a long time. Well done. This will definitely be a reference to point newer players to for a long time.
AdministratorNot actually Hawaiian.
-Asmodeus-
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland31 Posts
January 04 2012 08:17 GMT
#55
On January 04 2012 00:01 Felo wrote:
Changelog:

04.01.2012 - 1.1 Added in several corrections pointed out by Buddhist and groms - Thank you <3!
03.01.2012 - 1.0 Posted the Guide

So excited that I've posted this.



Buddhist? THE buddhist? The one button, flying, frozen, shiving, dancing, Ming killing, Master of Shunpo rogue? I love this guy's movies. If it's him i'm glad he came to SC2.

Anyway, the guide is really great for an average player that wants to understand the game better, good job.
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
January 04 2012 08:35 GMT
#56
Holy crap. I'm at work and was only able to skim, but I will definitely go through this guide again and again when I get home, seems pretty spot on.
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
lac29
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1485 Posts
January 04 2012 08:48 GMT
#57
Interesting way of framing complex ideas.
Drxz
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia115 Posts
January 04 2012 08:54 GMT
#58
Will you bare my love-children, if you are a man that's okay, I will still cum inside of you though this means you will not have to go through pregnancy!

But seriously I love the guide, it is logical yet I did not seem to recognize it myself.
Luck is oftentimes greater than skill
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
January 04 2012 09:07 GMT
#59
On January 04 2012 15:40 RoboBob wrote:
Great guide! I really liked the first half, breaking things down to Economy Technology and Army was really well done. Adding intangible resources like scouting information, map vision, and positioning into Army was especially eye-opening.

However I thought the second half (Examples) was wishy-washy. It feels like you tried to force those 3 principles into rock-paper-scissors. (Army beats Economy beats Technology beats Army) I think thats a really bad application, because it ignores skill differentials.

For example, I'm Terran playing against Protoss. I decide to open with 1 Rax FE, because I feel most comfortable in the lategame. I see my opponent going Nexus first. What should I do?

According to the last half of your guide, I should punish the Protoss for being more greedy by pumping up Army. What your guide fails to consider is my unique weakness, which is that I'm bad when it comes to early pushes. It also fails to consider my unique strength, which is a really strong lategame (relative to others in my league).

So in my case, it actually makes more sense for me to allow the Protoss to get away with his Nexus first, than it is to punish it. Yes, my opponent will end up with a small economic advantage over me. But I will pay that price 100% of the time in order to ensure that we move to the lategame where I can outclass him.

I suppose you *could* argue that I should try to punish with Army even though terrible at it, in order to improve my weakness. But there's a huge difference between playing to improve and playing to win. (and this is a thread on how to win)

This is especially true on the ladder, where you do not know the individual strengths and weaknesses of your opponents. In my previous example, the Protoss will probably THINK he's ahead by comparing the ETA between us. He'll definitely have more stuff than me. But what he cannot realize is that by moving towards the lategame he's also moving us towards a gamestate where I will overwhelm the small advantage I intentional gave him with my stronger relative skill.

In defense of the guide, I don't think your example here is applicable. While it's true you do well by letting the protoss keep the nexus since you're better at the late game, you ARE technically doing a worse strategy. If a toss goes nexus first, it's better to punish it than not and a pro would punish it. You, however, consider yourself better in the late game than the opponents you're matched against on ladder, so you do a bad strategy, on purpose, because you have a better chance at winning that way. This situation is not really something any guide can account for, it has to go with what strategies are superior.
Exempt.
Profile Joined May 2011
United States470 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-04 09:19:21
January 04 2012 09:13 GMT
#60
completely disagree your fighting the turtle picture, as well as the basis of your concept, (the idea is you've fully neglected the resource of time), in fact your ETA doesnt even include time in it. But considering you hit so many key areas and used both logic as well as common sense approaches this is a very good guide to basic understanding of the fundamentals of this game that are widely skipped on.

Edit: I guess you did mention time somewhat at the start of your guide. I think since you've already written an excellent guide you should finish it with information on time after the pillars (because otherwise we have another example of newtonian physics -- A generalization of how things work).
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