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[G] How to win - The ETA-Concept - Page 7

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Prev 1 5 6 7 All
Flix
Profile Joined June 2011
Belgium114 Posts
January 06 2012 09:29 GMT
#121
Superb guide breaking down the fundamentals into easy to read and inter-related categories. I'm going to read it through again. Cheers!
The drone became an extractor !
ApocAlypsE007
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Israel1007 Posts
January 06 2012 10:01 GMT
#122
Felo do you thing it's good to quantify each + on each categories into an actual statements like for example for Protoss each "+" in economy is 10 probes, or a gate, or ++ is a Nexus, or lets say tech each "+" is a key tech like + for cyber core, + for twilight council and + for templar archives? Or is it too specific and hard to scout all of it?
I'm playing the game, the one that will take me to my end, i'm waiting for the rain, TO WASH-- WHO I AM!!!
Alch3mist
Profile Joined December 2011
Belgium29 Posts
January 06 2012 11:50 GMT
#123
Really great guide, it helps understand the core of the game in a more global aspect than most other guides out there, this is cool
Felo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany392 Posts
January 06 2012 14:42 GMT
#124
On January 06 2012 19:01 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
Felo do you thing it's good to quantify each + on each categories into an actual statements like for example for Protoss each "+" in economy is 10 probes, or a gate, or ++ is a Nexus, or lets say tech each "+" is a key tech like + for cyber core, + for twilight council and + for templar archives? Or is it too specific and hard to scout all of it?


Hmm, I feel that thats something that is very hard to do, especially as the value isn't static - a Templar Archive is infinetely more worth against a pure Medivac/Marine force than against a mech composition.

I wouldn't focus to much on the actual amount of plusses, just focus on the trend of where the advantages are with a rough estimation of how strong they are.

But if you come up with a system then please let me know and I'd love to discuss it
EU GML P | Check my Stream (with commentary!) -> www.twitch.tv/xFelo
di4m0nd
Profile Joined June 2010
United States297 Posts
January 06 2012 15:29 GMT
#125
WOW great read. thanks so much this is just what i needed to show my girlfriend
TLO | MC | Taeja | MarineKing | Alicia | HerO | PartinG | Bomber | Genius | MMA | CoCa | HuK | DRG | YugiOh | MVP | Jjakji | Stardust | Snute | Scarlett
Hordeon
Profile Joined October 2011
Lithuania72 Posts
January 06 2012 21:03 GMT
#126
Thanks, just because this guide my winratio increasted by full 10%!

Now I'm going with 70% winratio each day in diamond league!
ZvP me if you can :P
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
January 06 2012 21:58 GMT
#127
So long, and so informative O.O
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
Felo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany392 Posts
January 07 2012 09:08 GMT
#128
On January 07 2012 06:03 Hordeon wrote:
Thanks, just because this guide my winratio increasted by full 10%!

Now I'm going with 70% winratio each day in diamond league!


I'm not entirely sure if you are trying to make fun of me/the guide :>

But thank you as well as to the other two of you ^.^
EU GML P | Check my Stream (with commentary!) -> www.twitch.tv/xFelo
Vronti
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States111 Posts
January 08 2012 18:39 GMT
#129
Very well put, bookmarked for further reference. Thank you!
"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest." — Confucius
Baerinho
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany257 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-08 21:41:16
January 08 2012 21:40 GMT
#130
On January 06 2012 23:42 Felo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2012 19:01 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
Felo do you thing it's good to quantify each + on each categories into an actual statements like for example for Protoss each "+" in economy is 10 probes, or a gate, or ++ is a Nexus, or lets say tech each "+" is a key tech like + for cyber core, + for twilight council and + for templar archives? Or is it too specific and hard to scout all of it?


Hmm, I feel that thats something that is very hard to do, especially as the value isn't static - a Templar Archive is infinetely more worth against a pure Medivac/Marine force than against a mech composition.

I wouldn't focus to much on the actual amount of plusses, just focus on the trend of where the advantages are with a rough estimation of how strong they are.

But if you come up with a system then please let me know and I'd love to discuss it


I think the only way to give a value to the "+" would be to set a fixed amount overall, e.g.: 9 "+"´s overall, spread over 3 categories
E:+++
T:+++
A:+++
or
E:+++++++
T:+
A:+

It doesnt really matter as the way you did it makes it clear anyway, and even can suggest e.g. an army advantage after an early economic advantage

E:+
T:+++
A:+++++
vs
E:+
T:+++
A:++++++++

One could go and assing mineral/gas values /supply or whatever to them, but it´d never really make sense, you gave a perfect example. The actual worth of those values changes every second, every tech decision and so forth.

As for the whole article, i totally loved it. Finally someone that is able to put it into words for me to show some friends learning the game, while i myself never was smart enough to have the idea to simplify it into such simple terms for myself to be able to use it as a quick ingame decision making tool.

Looking forward to further installments
Felo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany392 Posts
January 09 2012 07:56 GMT
#131
On January 09 2012 06:40 Baerinho wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2012 23:42 Felo wrote:
On January 06 2012 19:01 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
Felo do you thing it's good to quantify each + on each categories into an actual statements like for example for Protoss each "+" in economy is 10 probes, or a gate, or ++ is a Nexus, or lets say tech each "+" is a key tech like + for cyber core, + for twilight council and + for templar archives? Or is it too specific and hard to scout all of it?


Hmm, I feel that thats something that is very hard to do, especially as the value isn't static - a Templar Archive is infinetely more worth against a pure Medivac/Marine force than against a mech composition.

I wouldn't focus to much on the actual amount of plusses, just focus on the trend of where the advantages are with a rough estimation of how strong they are.

But if you come up with a system then please let me know and I'd love to discuss it


I think the only way to give a value to the "+" would be to set a fixed amount overall, e.g.: 9 "+"´s overall, spread over 3 categories
E:+++
T:+++
A:+++
or
E:+++++++
T:+
A:+

It doesnt really matter as the way you did it makes it clear anyway, and even can suggest e.g. an army advantage after an early economic advantage

E:+
T:+++
A:+++++
vs
E:+
T:+++
A:++++++++

One could go and assing mineral/gas values /supply or whatever to them, but it´d never really make sense, you gave a perfect example. The actual worth of those values changes every second, every tech decision and so forth.

As for the whole article, i totally loved it. Finally someone that is able to put it into words for me to show some friends learning the game, while i myself never was smart enough to have the idea to simplify it into such simple terms for myself to be able to use it as a quick ingame decision making tool.

Looking forward to further installments


Thank you! ^.^

I personally only use it in the sense of thinking who is ahead in which regard without paying much attention to the number of plusses. So for me it could even work like this

E+
T
A+

As its supposed to be easy and quick there's no room for counting anything on the battlefield to create detailed statistics in my opinion.

Thank you for your feedback, glad you appreciate itt <3!

EU GML P | Check my Stream (with commentary!) -> www.twitch.tv/xFelo
somefatkid
Profile Joined August 2011
United States9 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 20:27:38
January 09 2012 20:23 GMT
#132
The Wall
+ Show Spoiler +

I think an important aspect that needs to be in this guide is the concept of "the wall" that is that any advantage you may gain in E T A will hit a point in the game where they will become less impactful or even negligible.


For example

Scenario 1 Army
+ Show Spoiler +

If you are a zerg player making roaches off 3 base you might have a very big army advantage on a protoss player in the mid game, but as time goes on since there is a "wall" on army advantage 200/200. At this point the zerg player will only be able to lose army advantage


Scenario 2 Economy

+ Show Spoiler +

If we take the same example of a zerg playing a protoss, and we see the protoss take a fast third base in respond to your third base. You might respond by double expanding putting you at 5 bases to 3 so you might imagine that your stats look like this
+ Show Spoiler +

E++++++++++
T++
A++


And your opponent
+ Show Spoiler +

E++++++
T+++
A++


But in reality the zerg looks more like
+ Show Spoiler +

E++++++++
T++
A++

Why ??

Because after 3 bases with rare exceptions you won’t want to exceed 75 workers otherwise you will not leave enough space for your army. Since the purpose of your economy is to build a strong army this would contradict your goals. Since the number of mining workers is quite comparable. Your effective mining rate will be comparable to your opponent, while having the downside of adding many more points of vulnerability to defend.


Scenario 3 Tech
+ Show Spoiler +

The tech example is simple. In PvT there is often a point where chrono boost will give a protoss a large upgrade advantage, but since upgrades stop at 3/3/3 there is a limit on how long you can maintain this advantage before the terran catches up



Conclusion
+ Show Spoiler +

Basically what needs to be understood is this guide largely describes the mid game. If both players play a macro style then E/T/A changes in priority to army efficiency and expnsion control which includes things like controlling space and worker harassment. Whereas these aspect weren't as highlighted in the guide thus far
I personally believe a very under explored aspect of play is the concept of the late game. Where all the values E/T/A will all slowly equalize
Thanks for reading ♥

FF....so good
infinity21 *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada6683 Posts
January 10 2012 10:22 GMT
#133
Nothing's ever new
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=197258
Official Entusman #21
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
January 11 2012 09:04 GMT
#134
On January 06 2012 23:42 Felo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2012 19:01 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
Felo do you thing it's good to quantify each + on each categories into an actual statements like for example for Protoss each "+" in economy is 10 probes, or a gate, or ++ is a Nexus, or lets say tech each "+" is a key tech like + for cyber core, + for twilight council and + for templar archives? Or is it too specific and hard to scout all of it?


Hmm, I feel that thats something that is very hard to do, especially as the value isn't static - a Templar Archive is infinetely more worth against a pure Medivac/Marine force than against a mech composition.

I wouldn't focus to much on the actual amount of plusses, just focus on the trend of where the advantages are with a rough estimation of how strong they are.

But if you come up with a system then please let me know and I'd love to discuss it

I feel like a terran that went mech would have more ++ to it's tech than one with marine/medivac. It needs to have some sort of gas spent quantifier if this is even possible.
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
ODKStevez
Profile Joined February 2011
Ireland1225 Posts
January 11 2012 09:08 GMT
#135
Woah, just read all of this, I expected this to be really low level based but I learnt a good bit from this, thanks!
Luppa <3
msTrT
Profile Joined April 2011
Russian Federation13 Posts
January 20 2012 17:15 GMT
#136
I didn't like the part when "you make your ETA like twice bigger in each aspect", you shouldn't gather so many +'ses from nowhere lol
build more pylons build more probes
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