vGesiex here if anybody's wondering.

TBH I really don't like how you posted that one replay. Not because I lose or anything, but because the way you present it is highly misleading.

* I had done the immortal push a few times against him already at that point, and he knew exactly what I was doing. I was doing a few variations to the same build, but nothing major changed. For example, in these replays, if I went for a prism instead of a second immortal, pulling all those scvs and putting 3 siege tanks in the front doesn't stop me at all.
* My immortal push wasn't just 5 seconds late, it was over 30 seconds late because I messed up the build order. There's at least one replay I linked where I did it closer to the right timing.
* He posted a screenshot of how to deal with immortal drops, but the moment in that game is after I killed the tech lab researching blue flame and a tank
* It's also the one game he won against me out of a bunch using this mech build

* The reason he won the game he screened was because I was focusing far too much on harass and not enough on getting an actual army up. I harassed with DTs, immorts, and voids. If I kept it down to immortal harass and got high temps instead of DTs, the marines would not have been a problem at all for my carriers.

Here's some other replays of him doing the same build. Sorry that I don't have descriptions for any of these for what I do. Note my lack of BM, unlike my opponent in the above replay.

http://drop.sc/79422
http://drop.sc/79417
http://drop.sc/79418
http://drop.sc/79420
http://drop.sc/79421

Mech builds usually aren't that great because the opener is super weak - it's usually vulnerable to immort pushes or even some kind of voidray harass. The earlier variations that elbow did, where he would harass with hellion drops, is incredibly weak because toss can a-move even without immortals. Also, a lot of tosses don't know what to do later in the game. Standard comps that you would use against bio are normally really weak against mech, so the toss ends up playing with a style they're usually not used to.

rgTheSchworz

Romania425 Posts

December 25 2011 18:38 GMT

#83

Ok, but can you beat solid openers like banshee harass that has the starport up to defend voids, or even reaper siege expand that pumps 2 rauders and maybe has 2 bunkers and 2 tanks on high ground before you arrive?Where the terran makes 2 rauders, and then switches fact to tlab for siege mode and tanks ASAP? And then makes marines non-stop?

esiex3

United States25 Posts

December 25 2011 18:39 GMT

#84

Immortals counter marauders and tanks... the entire reason you're getting immortals is so that you can blast through any armored comp, including bunkers, marauds, and tanks. You also have the option to be really mobile if you get a prism instead, so instead of pushing the front, where there could be a bunch of tanks and bunkers, you just elevator your army into the main and wreck him there.

rgTheSchworz

Romania425 Posts

December 25 2011 18:42 GMT

#85

Yes immortals counter marauders and tanks, bravo a silver player could figure that out.
My point is, If the tank is on the high ground in the main, unreacheable and there are 2 bunkers, for which you need sentries which are bad vs tanks, can you break it? Watch my video, can you break what i had with your timing?.

esiex3

United States25 Posts

December 25 2011 18:44 GMT

#86

I made an edit after your post, but tl;dr robo gives you options to change what you're doing to counter heavy defenses. Also notice that in all my replays, I have an observer, so high ground doesn't matter as much.

THEPPLsELBOW

United States190 Posts

December 25 2011 18:44 GMT

#87

These poorly describe the way mech should be played. I made glaring mistakes in all of them.

Game 1: Did not scout for stargate much, and I did not open up the dropship helion opener.
Game 2: Opened up with drop ship and helion, but I was making a 3rd when you attacked. If those were 3 bunkers it wouldve been a different story.
Game 3: You probably just had me beat. Standard game, some mistakes here and there, lost quickly.
Game 4: Okay I was supposed to win this one. 3/3 air and 5 StarPorts and you win with 1/0 voids.

Sorry for the BM I thought it was just friendly trashtalk :\

esiex3

United States25 Posts

December 25 2011 18:45 GMT

#88

Sorry for the BM I thought it was just friendly trashtalk :\

No worries, I just thought it was funny how you only BM'd in the only game you won

rgTheSchworz

Romania425 Posts

December 25 2011 18:47 GMT

#89

I dont mean that you cant see it. I mean that siege tanks have 13 FRIGGING range and if nicely placed, you cant snipe it without getting up the ramp. I also send a scout out at 8:30 or so to check for immos or a third and deduce if you are teching, massing or expanding. Warp prism , i go like hmm. It eats robo time for immortals and can be sniped. Either way i keep my tanks unsieged till you attack. You can try it though.

THEPPLsELBOW

United States190 Posts

December 25 2011 18:48 GMT

#90

On December 26 2011 03:45 esiex3 wrote:

Show nested quote +

No worries, I just thought it was funny how you only BM'd in the only game you won

Yeah immortal drops really make me rage

esiex3

United States25 Posts

December 25 2011 18:51 GMT

#91

On December 26 2011 03:47 rgTheSchworz wrote:
I dont mean that you cant see it. I mean that siege tanks have 13 FRIGGING range and if nicely placed, you cant snipe it without betting up the ramp

I hate just talking about this without an actual example, and it's really hard to find games where a terran actually went tanks against me ;_;

Keep in mind that if you have your immorts in front, tanks don't do too much damage. 10 per shot and they don't fire too often. Also, with the warp prism option, like I mentioned several times and you seemed to ignore, you can completely bypass the bunkers and tanks and go straight into the main.

rgTheSchworz

Romania425 Posts

December 25 2011 18:56 GMT

#92

There are marines which wreck your shields though. Do you mind posting a build order for your push with and without warp- prism to see what you get at what timing? 8- 8:30 when i scout you and when you actually attack.

esiex3

United States25 Posts

December 25 2011 19:01 GMT

#93

http://drop.sc/79522 - Not mech, but here's me doing basically the same build against a bio player.

rgTheSchworz

Romania425 Posts

December 25 2011 19:09 GMT

#94

Ok, I'll look into the replay and meanwhile perfect my own timings.But to me, attacking me at home, where I have defender's advantage(you can warp-in, but not immortals) and siege tanks, is suicide.

THEPPLsELBOW

United States190 Posts

December 25 2011 19:27 GMT

#95

http://drop.sc/79538

Here is a replay against a guy who went standard collosus timing from a 1gX. Hel dr was succesful, and shown banshees on purpose to make him defensive, I then took a 3rd. He is about to attack me but my helions dove right in, and killed his single zealot wall in natural. This pulls him back and I get the extra 20 seconds to win the game fending off his attack.

Yes, I tried mech on metal, not recommended for the inexperienced.

On December 26 2011 04:01 esiex3 wrote:
http://drop.sc/79522 - Not mech, but here's me doing basically the same build against a bio player.

I don't see a lot of people do that build when they only single gas reactor rax, because it could be a 111, or a helion marine drop into delayed 111(one of my builds haha) do you think 1g robo should be the proper response? Or only after you see expo to punish meching players.

esiex3

United States25 Posts

December 25 2011 19:42 GMT

#96

1gate robo is my current safe build. If there's a 1/1/1 coming, you have a bunch of good responses like fast collo. 2rax just dies to this build while barely doing any damage, although it does depend on control. A 1rax reactor rax expand should just die to this build since you can immort and/or prism push. The nicest part of it is that you get an obs out super fast so you should be able to respond to whatever your opponent is doing.

Zyphen

United States258 Posts

December 25 2011 20:09 GMT

#97

This will only work on the NA server. If our European friends are disappointed by our "masters" level play, sorry. You can get away with this kind of shit here. I've seen comparably poor macro all the way up to GM. There's 2 possibilities:

1. The OP should actually be ranked higher but is held back by his inferior build.
2. Else, he should be ranked lower but most masters protoss don't even bother to prep/practice for mech so the OP gets away with it.

I can't decide which.

Thylacine

Sweden882 Posts

December 25 2011 20:38 GMT

#98

Indeed...As stated earlier I thought this was 2 platinum players duking it out..if this is master on US then...Meh.
This wont work on EU.

rgTheSchworz

Romania425 Posts

December 25 2011 20:43 GMT

#99

I am diamond level on EU with tvp being my best mu and lastshadow actually put a rep where mech worked. The builds need tweaking but i feel it can work given time and good players doing it.

THEPPLsELBOW

United States190 Posts

December 25 2011 20:53 GMT

#100

On December 26 2011 05:09 Zyphen wrote:
This will only work on the NA server. If our European friends are disappointed by our "masters" level play, sorry. You can get away with this kind of shit here. I've seen comparably poor macro all the way up to GM. There's 2 possibilities:

1. The OP should actually be ranked higher but is held back by his inferior build.
2. Else, he should be ranked lower but most masters protoss don't even bother to prep/practice for mech so the OP gets away with it.

I can't decide which.

I didn't know european people had a special sense for mech counters. Silly me.

In all seriousness, if European players are better than American players as a whole by a whole league (exaggeration) and a half (more exaggeration), which makes sense because Europe is like 10 more countries, then they should have the refined mechanics and game sense themselves to be able to figure out how to fine tune this build to make mech work for their opponents in Sweden, Germany, etc...