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.Appreciate the effort though you make great guides.
[G] Belial's Comprehensive Guide to Beating 6 Pool! - Page 7
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frietjeman
Netherlands26 Posts
.Appreciate the effort though you make great guides. | ||
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LazinCajun
United States294 Posts
Should I start drone scouting with 14/14 or is it a micro problem? | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Sorry this is a little off-topic but I don't see how 1 drone can beat 1 ling. They both deal 5 damage, but the ling has .7 attack speed where the drone has 1.5 which makes the ling's DPS more than twice that of a drone. A drone has 40 health and a ling has 35. Zerg regen can be left out of the picture cause they obviously both regen the same amount. Neither of them have armor and obviously no bonus damage so I don't understand this Test it if you don't believe me. 1) XelNaga Caverns and Steppes of War both conveniently have a "recluse" mineral that can easily be used for your drone flower, however, many maps like Shattered Temple don't have these formations of minerals. How would you hold an Infinite Ling 6 pool on these maps? You don't need 3 mineral patches - just 2 is enough to create a corner pocket for you to do it in. 2) In the end, and you said it yourself, hatch first still loses to 9/10/11 pool. If your guide really works out perfectly and 6 pool becomes useless against everything, then the default cheese will become 9 pool and nothing will have changed in the rock paper scissors state of ZvZ build orders. The difference is a 10 drone scout will see a 10 pool before you throw down 14 hatch, on a 2 player map. Sending 2 drone scouts on a 4 player map is ridiculous. 10 poolers won't scout usually on 4 player maps so you'll usually be safer from it on 4 player maps. | ||
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LazinCajun
United States294 Posts
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Bluehawkz
Denmark14 Posts
amazing guide, its fantastic that people on TL take the time to write up stuff like that. i never would have gotten good at starcraft without the guides on here | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
It's pretty bizarre though. Is it just me, or are Zerglings a lot weaker than their stats would suggest? Really bad AI, or some sort of bug with their attack speed, etc? | ||
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MajorityofOne
Canada2506 Posts
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zJayy962
1363 Posts
On March 29 2012 08:02 sunprince wrote: It's pretty bizarre though. Is it just me, or are Zerglings a lot weaker than their stats would suggest? Really bad AI, or some sort of bug with their attack speed, etc? One drone doesn't kill a zergling. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Is it just me, or are Zerglings a lot weaker than their stats would suggest? Really bad AI, or some sort of bug with their attack speed, etc? You really need zergling speed to make zerglings more effective. That way they get first hit off. wow i read 90% of that and i dont even play zerg You can definitely apply the guide if you are different race. The only difference is that you have the option to wall off, and spines are never an issue. Things like Belial's Drone Flower and Bosswalk can work for other races. Defensive worker stacking really is useful for other races against 6 pool. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
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[D]reAm
3 Posts
finally a useful post ! ty | ||
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ipwntbarney
United States141 Posts
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Mahtasooma
Germany475 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
As for the bosswalk part.... i don't even know if that is necessary anymore. Just a-move all your drones when initial lings arrive and grab 4 of the drones and shift-right click spam on the morphing spine (spine = later pool or less lings). I think bosswalk may be more useful when it's 2 spines. | ||
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roym899
Germany426 Posts
just lost to a strange All-In I've never played before against and lost. It's a 9 Pool and he pulled like 6 drones or so but still had 5 Drones at Home. I really didn't knew what to do. He just attacked the worker line, and I tried to get a surround but as he just had more units then me he easily killed me. http://drop.sc/155615 What could I've done here? I don't really know which of your guidelines apply to this situation. Edit: Diamond vs Diamond | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On April 08 2012 21:49 roym899 wrote: Hey, just lost to a strange All-In I've never played before against and lost. It's a 9 Pool and he pulled like 6 drones or so but still had 5 Drones at Home. I really didn't knew what to do. He just attacked the worker line, and I tried to get a surround but as he just had more units then me he easily killed me. http://drop.sc/155615 What could I've done here? I don't really know which of your guidelines apply to this situation. Edit: Diamond vs Diamond As I stated in the OP, 9/10/11 pool is a straight up build order loss. 6/7/8 pools can be beaten because you are making lots of units (drones), but 9/10/11 pool have an econ behind it to hit you with something too hard. I think I specifically mentioned Nestea's 10 pool build - 10 pool, drone up to 12 with extractor tricking, pull 8/12 drones and rally lings. It's a build order loss... I recommend that you go 10 drone scout on 2 player maps, and on 4 player maps drone scout normally. A 10 drone scout on 2 player maps, where 9/10/11 pools are often popular, will see if they are early pooling before you throw down the 14 hatch. | ||
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roym899
Germany426 Posts
On April 09 2012 00:02 Belial88 wrote: I did a 14/14.As I stated in the OP, 9/10/11 pool is a straight up build order loss. 6/7/8 pools can be beaten because you are making lots of units (drones), but 9/10/11 pool have an econ behind it to hit you with something too hard. I think I specifically mentioned Nestea's 10 pool build - 10 pool, drone up to 12 with extractor tricking, pull 8/12 drones and rally lings. It's a build order loss... I recommend that you go 10 drone scout on 2 player maps, and on 4 player maps drone scout normally. A 10 drone scout on 2 player maps, where 9/10/11 pools are often popular, will see if they are early pooling before you throw down the 14 hatch. | ||
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Zythus
Poland184 Posts
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roym899
Germany426 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
1. You make everything late. Maybe it's you having 20 apm, but you never made that first drone for 4 seconds. You need to make the drone first, then start mining with initial workers. And don't be splitting your drones. It's obvoiusly hurting you more than helping. You need to just make a worker first, then select all workers and right click a mineral patch. Things like setting rally points and hotkeys... you have until like, 20 supply before a unit pops out and that matters. You don't need to set them right away. Every drone you make from 6-14 was just late. So already you are kind of screwed. You should have started your pool basically right before his finished, but instead, it starts when his completes (he forgot his first 2 drones too, but he was banking money for his pool anyways so it didn't affect his pool timing). So right away you are having trouble. Just in the first 15 supply, you aren't making workers on time. So you are behind when you shouldn't be. 2. Why are you sending a drone scout on 10? You are doing the 'safest' build zerg can possibly do - that is, you won't autolose to anything. You don't need to drone scout. But some people drone scout when going 14/14 to see if they should expand or pressure hatch first... i guess. I'm not sure. I know some pros drone scout. Either way, you are drone scouting WAY too early. You don't need to scout on 10. You only need to drone scout on 10 if you are going hatch first, and worried about 10 pools. Not if you are going 14 pool. Your drone scout did nothing to change your build order, and you would've known it was a 10 pool by a 14 drone scout or overlord. I mean, the point of hatch first 10 scout is to NOT plant the hatch first when seeing an early pool. So I don't know why you are drone scouting. 3. You are late on your pool by 50 minerals. You also didn't pre-emptively move the drone in location. 4. You droned to 16, and no overlord at 15. Now you can't get 6 lings out to defend, can't get the queen out. You also leave a drone in his base, I assume to make a spine, but you should not be doing that.... you should be worried about defending. Once you defend, you will be way ahead with speed, map control, faster expo... 5. You continue mining gas after 100 gas. If you saw he went early pool, and even further you saw he pulled all his drones, you should have pulled off gas IMMEDIATELY, if not cancel your geyser if you could. Speed in 110 seconds isn't going to help at all. 6. And then you get supply blocked at 18/18. You were aware you went to 16/18 when when going 14/14 you are supposed to make an overlord at 15 right? You saw 6 lings coming after you, werent you aware that when you pool popped, you would only be able to make 4 because you would be supply blocked? 7. Why aren't you making spines in your mineral line? That would have helped. You SAW he pulled drones, you should have made a spine in your mineral line. 8. What are you even doing? YOu just mineral walk back and forward to let him hit you. You mineral walk to get away from someone. Not to go toward him... If he continues chasing your mineral walk, you mineral walk back and trap him. If he doesnt go all the way into the mineral line, don't mineral walk back toward him because you wont get a surround. You saw he didn't make a spine. You should have done Belial's Floral Arrangement of Death. You only need to 'bosswalk' when there are 2 spines. If there is 1 spine, just a-move, and select 4 drones to attack the morphing spine. In this case, where there is no spines, you should have done a defensive drone stacking. Also, you could have just run away, since there was no spine. Then rally lings together with drones, and push back. You had enough for a queen too, although queens are bad, but your decision making was really off... In short, you lose because of: 1. Your macro was horrible. Late on everything, late on your initial drone, late on your overlord, no overlord on 15, supply blocked on 18 even though you knew you needed lings to hold 10 pool, no pulling off gas even when you saw he was all-inning. You should have had lings in time to meet his lings, and you should have popped 6 lings with 2 spines instead of just 4 lings, supply blocked, with 300+ minerals banked. 2. Decision making. You could have held 3 different ways: - 2 spines in mineral line - macro'ing better... - running away, then rejoining forces with lings. 3. Your opponent completely out-micro'd you. It's obvious that, well, you were outplayed. He had better mineral walking micro, he kept up production better than you did, he was more crisp on his timings (which is... funny), and he engaged better than you. He deserved the win. He just played much better. TLDR You need to work on your macro. Failing that, you need better decision making, which you can get just by reading my guide. The guide also will teach you about micro, which, failing decision making, also could have won you the game. Macro better. | ||
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