EPTI don't lose to it but I'm just wondering what the standard/most optimal response to it is.
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name_lock
Canada30 Posts
I don't lose to it but I'm just wondering what the standard/most optimal response to it is. | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
On December 09 2011 01:57 name_lock wrote: What's the general response to either gasless 2rax expand -> marine poke or that 1rax gasless fe-> 3 more rax gasless marine poke? It usually hits at ~40-50 supply so I only have 1 or 2 warp in cycles of units. I have to either pull probes to defend or let my nexus tank for a while to hold it. If he brings SCVs I risk losing the expansion. I don't lose to it but I'm just wondering what the standard/most optimal response to it is. Not the right thread to post this, but stalker kiting is the answer to both. 2 rax gasless expand is very rare and 2 rax gasless is mostly used as an allin. | ||
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SkyBlaze
Canada191 Posts
I can post a replay if that would help and if my NA rank matters I am a Master's Protoss. btw if they don't 2 rax with shell or i am still alive I usually win due to the power of this build and the timing you have as the protoss. | ||
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monk
United States8476 Posts
On December 09 2011 07:42 SkyBlaze wrote: I need some help with the 1gate expand part when the tarren does a 2 rax with shell. I've been told I can kill it with the 1 zealot and 2 stalkers and with gate,gate,gas,pylon. there is a small timing where I can get a extra unit, usually a zealot. I know this might sound greedy but I don't want to pull probes if possible. With all that said is there a game where a Protoss does this build Vs 2rax with shell? I can post a replay if that would help and if my NA rank matters I am a Master's Protoss. btw if they don't 2 rax with shell or i am still alive I usually win due to the power of this build and the timing you have as the protoss. I specifically said the early game is not within the scope of this guide. I'm working on a guide involving a safe version of 1 gate expand. It should be up in the next month or so wait patiently. The short answer for you is that if you just keep chronoing out stalkers and add 2 gates at a good time, you can hold it off without pulling probes as long as your opponent doesn't pull to many scvs. | ||
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Huntz
164 Posts
On December 08 2011 04:35 NrGmonk wrote: Next guide: MC's 1 gate FE Is MC's 1 gate FE your recommended/go-to opener for this style? If not, would you suggest a particular one? | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285834 | ||
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Tazerenix
Australia340 Posts
Just tried this on the korean server, I wasn't even doing the build totally correct (missed the timing for my 4th and 5th gateways by a small margin of 2 minutes lol) and I had 3/3 by 16:30 and was maxed before then. What an amazing style, I love it. Diamond League KR by the way. | ||
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unit
United States2621 Posts
On December 09 2011 08:01 kcdc wrote: To those asking about how to expand, Monk prefers a safe stalker-heavy 1 gate FE that he's promising to post soon. If you can't wait, this is what I do (it's a little greedier): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285834 greedy but still wrecks 2rax xD this guide is so useful, ive just been doing this without getting the immortals, so i started getting the immortals, the difference that they make is amazing, also i thought that 4rax was standard not 3 T_T | ||
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Forbidden17
666 Posts
On December 09 2011 08:01 kcdc wrote: To those asking about how to expand, Monk prefers a safe stalker-heavy 1 gate FE that he's promising to post soon. If you can't wait, this is what I do (it's a little greedier): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285834 Hi kcdc I was wondering if you knew the main difference between MC's 1gate FE and your old 1gate FE? If you are not familiar with MC's style, or you feel it more appropriate to just wait for Monk to release his guide it's okay. Thanks for writing your guides by the way, they're very clean and to the point with just enough making it nice to read. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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ant-1
Canada149 Posts
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monk
United States8476 Posts
On December 09 2011 20:28 Forbidden17 wrote: Hi kcdc I was wondering if you knew the main difference between MC's 1gate FE and your old 1gate FE? If you are not familiar with MC's style, or you feel it more appropriate to just wait for Monk to release his guide it's okay. Thanks for writing your guides by the way, they're very clean and to the point with just enough making it nice to read. MC's is safer in that you can hold early pressures while pulling less probes and better overall versus proxies. The other advantage is that you can make less of a judgement call on the robo timing. With kcdc's new build, you have to choose between 2 gate robo and 3 gate robo. The advantages of kcdc's new build are that it gets 2 probes less and a 15 seconds later nexus. You also get one early sentry to build up energy with kcdc's build. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/monkscreaterprimepvtsty.jpg/) Please let me know if there is a correction that should be made as I can fix any errors and update that. Question: What do you feel is the best gateway count on 4 and 5 bases? If a game goes long enoigg to hit that many bases do you ever add a 2nd robo to help with a faster change back into collossus? edited with input you added below. | ||
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FXOTheoRy
United States519 Posts
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monk
United States8476 Posts
On December 10 2011 02:14 vaderseven wrote: I am a viaual learner when I go off of a style that I didn't research first hand myself and I thought I might share a visual aid I made based on the opening post. ![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/f/844/monkscreaterprimepvtsty.jpg/) Please let me know if there is a correction that should be made as I can fix any errors and update that. Question: What do you feel is the best gateway count on 4 and 5 bases? If a game goes long enoigg to hit that many bases do you ever add a 2nd robo to help with a faster change back into collossus? You gotta use TL's image upload method to directly add images to your post. I had to check the code for your post to check the image. You should confirm your opponent is on 2 base before you even start forges. Thus, your first 2 offshoots aren't really right. I almost meant you shouldn't do this strategy vs a 2 base marine tank banshee. I don't think it's within the scope of this guide to recommend what to do versus mech, and I personally do something different vs mech than what you suggest, so no comment there. I'm planning on slightly changing my recommendations for templar vs archons, so wait for that. You can't spell medivacs. I usually end up on 10 gates on 3 base for a normal game and at the very minimum add 2 gates for each additional base i get. However, it really depends on your bank and how many gates you can afford. 2nd robo is good for longer games. Btw is this what you do at work? | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
Ya today things like this is what your tax dollars are going towards. I fixed the tags before you posted. | ||
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Forbidden17
666 Posts
On December 10 2011 00:31 NrGmonk wrote: MC's is safer in that you can hold early pressures while pulling less probes and better overall versus proxies. The other advantage is that you can make less of a judgement call on the robo timing. With kcdc's new build, you have to choose between 2 gate robo and 3 gate robo. The advantages of kcdc's new build are that it gets 2 probes less and a 15 seconds later nexus. You also get one early sentry to build up energy with kcdc's build. I was referring to his old 30 Nexus one (not his new 27nexus) that got 2 stalkers before Nexus and cut probes to throw down 2 more gateways if you scout pressure. His new one has a window where it is slightly more vulnerable but should still be able to deal with most terran aggression. And did you mean a 15second earlier nexus? I'm pretty sure his 27nexus was faster than MC's? | ||
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monk
United States8476 Posts
On December 10 2011 04:51 Forbidden17 wrote: I was referring to his old 30 Nexus one (not his new 27nexus) that got 2 stalkers before Nexus and cut probes to throw down 2 more gateways if you scout pressure. His new one has a window where it is slightly more vulnerable but should still be able to deal with most terran aggression. And did you mean a 15second earlier nexus? I'm pretty sure his 27nexus was faster than MC's? Yea I meant earlier nexus. My bad Compared to kcdc's old build, MC's build skips the sentry as the 4th unit instead opting for a faster robo with that 100 gas. In addition, it relies on a chornoed 1st gateway instead of chornoed warpgates to hold off any pressures. This is mostly because of the wg change that made kcdc's old build obsolete. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On December 10 2011 00:31 NrGmonk wrote: MC's is safer in that you can hold early pressures while pulling less probes and better overall versus proxies. The other advantage is that you can make less of a judgement call on the robo timing. With kcdc's new build, you have to choose between 2 gate robo and 3 gate robo. The advantages of kcdc's new build are that it gets 2 probes less and a 15 seconds later nexus. You also get one early sentry to build up energy with kcdc's build. Don't want to derail this thread too much. This is mostly right except that the nexus is earlier, not later, and choosing between 2 gate robo and 3 gate robo isn't a critical judgement call--both are perfectly safe if you play them right. The judgement is more about what you want to do in mid-game and less about what you have to do to stay alive. Looking forward to a more thorough discussion of 1 gate FE's in your next guide, Monk. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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