|
Many of you will remember this thread that arguably popularized 1 gate FE vs Terran on NA ladder. 1 gate FE remains one of the best openings that can be used in PvT, and a wide variety of 1 gate FE build orders are used which, for the most part, accomplish the same things.
After testing many of the 1 gate FE build orders, I settled on the one that I thought was best and assumed that everybody used it. But it has recently come to my attention that this particular BO may not be popular, so I'm sharing it to win much admiration and glory. And to help less experienced players or whatever.
13 gate -> scout
gas
pylon
core
This is normal. The core comes at 17 or 18 depending whether you use 2 or 3 chronoboosts on probes, which is essentially a matter of taste. More on chronoboost use in a bit.
zealot
stalker
nexus! (27 food if 2 chrono on probes, 27 or 28 food--map dependent--if 3 chrono on probes)
Here's where your scouting comes in. If you expect pressure, build your second gateway at 28 food, then start a probe, then a sentry. You'll see in the replay that I cut probe production for 5 seconds at this point. This is the only time in the build that I intentionally cut probes; if you see another time that my nexuses are idle, it's probably an error. If you don't expect pressure, you can get your 2nd gate after your sentry without cutting probes at all. If you don't know how to tell whether pressure is coming, it mostly boils down to whether you see T start a quick tech lab or a second barracks before his marine finishes. If you're in gold league and you're not sure, just get the fast 2nd gate. 5 seconds of probe cutting won't kill you.
Build a zealot immediately after your sentry. This zealot, your second gateway, and WG tech should all finish at the same time (~5:50), at which point you warp in 2 stalkers or a zealot and a stalker total 6 gateway units which is plenty to defend a 2-rax without pulling any probes.
Regarding chronoboost usage, using 2 chronoboosts on probes at the start times things up nicely because it lets you take your nexus at 27/34 and your second gateway at 28/34 without only 5 seconds of probe cutting. If you use a third chronoboost on your nexus before that point, it slightly extends that period, essentially wasting the chronoboost.
On the other hand, if T isn't doing a heavy-pressure build, you don't want to cut probes anyway, so the third chronoboost isn't wasted. Season to taste. Both options work fine, but for purposes of really syncing everything up and giving you that nice timing where you walk down and blast through T's pressure, the 2 chronoboost option will make your replay look cooler.
I'm favoring 3 chronoboosts on probes right now. I don't know exactly the difference on every map (it changes based on how far mineral patches are), but I still seem to be able to get everything out in time to deal with every push, although my first warp-in round finishes closer to 6:10 than 6:00. It's still fast enough to defend 2 or 3-rax.
In summary, this build slightly improves on my old zealot-stalker-stalker-nexus because it gets the nexus at 27 food, 175 minerals earlier than the 30 food nexus. It also gets the 2nd gate much earlier (250 minerals earlier than a build that starts a third stalker before a second gate) which allows you to warp in 2 units right at 6 minutes rather than one when you need it and another a little later. It also substantially eliminates the probe cutting that is common in 1 gate FE, makes use of the gas surplus you wind up with, and starts accumulating sentry energy earlier. I particularly like that the extra energy gives you the option of popping a guardian shield which helps a ton against the marine-heavy 2-rax.
The downside is that you're sitting on zealot+stalker for a short window when you'd otherwise have a second stalker. This means that you need to be a little more careful against super-fast marauder pressure. Grab a watch tower or position a probe/unit so that you can see in advance if T is doing a 2 marauder push with 2+ SCVs. If that push is coming, grab 4 probes and attack him before the bunkers get planted. If you wait to engage until the bunkers are started, it's harder to control and your units will attack the wrong stuff, so I think it's easiest to just pull early and nip the push at the bud.
The 2 marauder push with quick bunkers is the only one you want to use probes for. Even if you're going with the super-greedy transition I'm using lately (robo and 2nd assimilator before WG tech finishes), you can hold the reactor 2-rax without probes.
If you want a more in-depth discussion of the strategy of 1 gate FE, check out my old thread. It's old, but it should be a decent resource for new players.
|
Thanks again kcdc! Your old 1 gate FE really did save my PvT -- I'm looking forward to this build doing the same to my current slump ><
Your opening is solid -- my question is more of a transition into mid game. Sometimes playing this build (in master) I'm too greedy on probes and tech, thus die to 2 base T stim timing (early stim due to 2 rax expo opening). Do you have advices on scouting the number of raxes --> appropriate response? The big question is when to tech to colossi? And if rely on gateway and upgrades, any ideas about twilight and forge timing?
Many thanks!
|
Nice write up, i noticed a small error when you are refering to "using 2 or 3 on probes" it is clear that you mean chronoboost, but it is only explicitly said afterwards
On the other hand, this is a very nice variation that i will try tomorrow with any luck
Thx you very much for this!
|
Thanks for the guide. I've been trying to do 1 gate FE recently but I have trouble holding off the 2 rax reactor first pressure that's fairly popular at the moment. My friend does that build almost exclusively in TvP so I'm definately going to try out this buid against him.
With regards to scouting the terrans build, do you ever pressure with the first zealot + stalker? I apologize if the replay answers this, I don't have sc2 installed on this PC.
|
On November 16 2011 08:36 Quochobao wrote:
Thanks again kcdc! Your old 1 gate FE really did save my PvT -- I'm looking forward to this build doing the same to my current slump ><
Your opening is solid -- my question is more of a transition into mid game. Sometimes playing this build (in master) I'm too greedy on probes and tech, thus die to 2 base T stim timing (early stim due to 2 rax expo opening). Do you have advices on scouting the number of raxes --> appropriate response? The big question is when to tech to colossi? And if rely on gateway and upgrades, any ideas about twilight and forge timing?
Many thanks!
Don't know!
Really, there are just too many options and variables to go into it. If you want quick ladder wins against standard bio expands, I recommend transitioning into a 7 gate all-in. Up to about the GM level, Terran players mostly can't stop it.
|
France1939 Posts
What is the point of making the sentry after nexus when it only costs 50 minerals and you have just enough gas to afford it anyways after stalker ?
My 1gate FE is pretty much exactly this except it's zealot stalker sentry before nexus which allows me to maximize my gateway production. Are the 10 additional seconds on FE really worth having your units delayed by 20 secs ?
|
On November 16 2011 08:38 SeriouR wrote:Nice write up, i noticed a small error when you are refering to "using 2 or 3 on probes" it is clear that you mean chronoboost, but it is only explicitly said afterwards On the other hand, this is a very nice variation that i will try tomorrow with any luck Thx you very much for this!
Thanks. I've weeded out several mistakes and awkward phrasings, but I'm sure there's more in there.
|
On November 16 2011 08:40 [KGS]Slacker wrote:
Thanks for the guide. I've been trying to do 1 gate FE recently but I have trouble holding off the 2 rax reactor first pressure that's fairly popular at the moment. My friend does that build almost exclusively in TvP so I'm definately going to try out this buid against him.
With regards to scouting the terrans build, do you ever pressure with the first zealot + stalker? I apologize if the replay answers this, I don't have sc2 installed on this PC.
You can. I used to do that poke all the time (people on ladder sometimes called it the kcdc poke when I did it), but it's best to do when you chronoboost your first stalker and T doesn't go straight to tech lab after his first marine. Since I don't chronoboost my first stalker anymore, I don't bother with the poke.
|
kcdc, you don't mention when you take the second gas. i imagine it'd be after the second gate?
thank you very much for updating this.
|
On November 16 2011 08:41 Geiko wrote:
What is the point of making the sentry after nexus when it only costs 50 minerals and you have just enough gas to afford it anyways after stalker ?
My 1gate FE is pretty much exactly this except it's zealot stalker sentry before nexus which allows me to maximize my gateway production. Are the 10 additional seconds on FE really worth having your units delayed by 20 secs ?
It just lets you get your nexus and 2nd gateway 50 minerals earlier. I used to do it the other way around, but I realized I wasn't using my sentry for anything at that timing and delaying my sentry still left me enough time to complete my 2nd zealot before WG tech, so it made sense to speed up the nexus and 2nd gate.
|
|
|
On November 16 2011 08:46 zeehar wrote:
kcdc, you don't mention when you take the second gas. i imagine it'd be after the second gate?
thank you very much for updating this.
Depends how you want to transition. I intentionally left this open. If you want to rush colossi or DT's or double-upgrades, take the 2nd gas early. If you want to all-in with zealots, take it late or not at all.
|
On November 16 2011 08:52 Pokebunny wrote:
Hey, at least you're not Baz.
Also, I used the replay against you because you're good and people can't whine that it worked because my opponent sucked. Hope you don't mind.
|
On November 16 2011 08:53 kcdc wrote:Hey, at least you're not Baz. Also, I used the replay against you because you're good and people can't whine that it worked because my opponent sucked. Hope you don't mind.
Well you hit me on a slump day
|
Hey kcdc, thank you very much for this, I do a lot of different variants of 1 gate FE and I never can decide which is the best, glad to have a good player's take on this.
I have two questions:
_ Is there a reason to why you don't take the xel naga towers in the replay, or even poke the ramp (even if it's more dangerous I guess)? I'm used to take the furthest with my stalker and the nearest with my zealot. Is it to /really/ deny the scv scouting?
Edit: forget poking at the ramp, you scouted the 2 rax, still I think you could take the towers, right? Do you fear a reaper?
_ What's your opinion on a 1 gate nexus before core expand?
Thanks alot.
|
On November 16 2011 09:13 ZenithM wrote:
Hey kcdc, thank you very much for this, I do a lot of different variants of 1 gate FE and I never can decide which is the best, glad to have a good player's take on this.
I have two questions:
_ Is there a reason to why you don't take the xel naga towers in the replay, or even poke the ramp (even if it's more dangerous I guess)? I'm used to take the furthest with my stalker and the nearest with my zealot. Is it to /really/ deny the scv scouting?
Edit: forget poking at the ramp, you scouted the 2 rax, still I think you could take the towers, right? Do you fear a reaper?
_ What's your opinion on a 1 gate nexus before core expand?
Thanks alot.
Good questions. I don't poke the ramp because I don't chrono my stalker, so I don't know that it's safe. I didn't take the towers mostly because I was pretty sure what was coming and moving forward would have increased my chances of screwing up. I usually do take a central tower, but on on XNC, there's two attack paths, so you need to take both towers at the same time to make sure you didn't miss their army going by the other side. I'm bad at multi-tasking, and I wind up screwing up a bunch when messing with the towers on XNC. Also, I like to use my zealot and stalker to deny sneaky bunkering near my nexus (I did this in the replay).
I don't know anything about nexus before core. If you're delaying your stalker, why not go nexus first?
|
Nice guide. I like it.
Can you hold a 3 rax with 2 gates? I've always used three gates with a 1 gate FE, doing a zealot-stalker-stalker and cutting probes to get 2 gates up. I see you hold off the 2 rax with 2 gate, but I think three would be a different story. How would you react differently, cutting probes for more gates? (Assuming you make the read that it's a 3 rax.)
|
On November 16 2011 10:08 Indrium wrote:
Nice guide. I like it.
Can you hold a 3 rax with 2 gates? I've always used three gates with a 1 gate FE, doing a zealot-stalker-stalker and cutting probes to get 2 gates up. I see you hold off the 2 rax with 2 gate, but I think three would be a different story. How would you react differently, cutting probes for more gates? (Assuming you make the read that it's a 3 rax.)
This falls into the transition period that I've left intentionally open. You have a bunch of minerals and gas around 34 food that you can use on extra gates, assimilator(s), forge(s), robo, twilight, etc. Do what you think makes sense.
|
On November 16 2011 10:11 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 10:08 Indrium wrote:
Nice guide. I like it.
Can you hold a 3 rax with 2 gates? I've always used three gates with a 1 gate FE, doing a zealot-stalker-stalker and cutting probes to get 2 gates up. I see you hold off the 2 rax with 2 gate, but I think three would be a different story. How would you react differently, cutting probes for more gates? (Assuming you make the read that it's a 3 rax.) This falls into the transition period that I've left intentionally open. You have a bunch of minerals and gas around 34 food that you can use on extra gates, assimilator(s), forge(s), robo, twilight, etc. Do what you think makes sense.
Cool, thanks.
|
Why did you add those 2 extra gates before his push hit?
Were you just completely sure he would do the pressure and wanted to counter attack, or would you need more gates to hold if he went for like 3-4 rax?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-241812.jpg)
