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On November 11 2011 03:38 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 22:50 tuestresfat wrote:
You guys must be the best plat players in sc2, I check the larva inject of almost every zerg I play at masters and rarely are they <5s for a <10min game and rarely are they <10s for a >15min game.
Personally my injects are around 7-10s for macro games and around 5s for short ones.
I have never, never, never, never ever met a zerg with 2-3 second injects unless they only injected like twice before the game ended.
OP, 12-14 seconds will get you to diamond lol. It's not great, but it's not keeping you in silver. Inject timing is pretty important for aggressive openings (like in 2s for example). You have to be pretty much on the dot with your injection in low econ vs low econ scenarios in team games.
Yes but can you honestly look through replays you lost and say "well shoot, I guess my avg 12s inject timings screwed me over, guess that's why I'm in silver"?
I'm making the assumption his injects are much better in the early game and get worse and worse as the game stretches on (as is the case with every single zerg player in the world, pro or amateur). I'm pretty sure his injects aren't 12s when executing low econ scenarios as you specified. Even if it is, it's not why he's in silver. See how useless all this discussion is.
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a decent tip, hotkey your means so when u select them u see the timing of your duration. its only really really really important in the early game, in the later stages its getting worse and worse for me 2, i just build a macro hatch then.
but in the early every inject has to hit in oder to get the eco advantage you need as a zerg
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I like to keep an eye on the progress bar on the hatchery itself. Based on what I see there I budget some time to do other tasks before the inject pops off. Another useful bit of info is creep tumors: if you spread creep after injects, a fully spread creep tumor means your injection popped off. If you're looking at the minimap and see tumors sitting comfortably away from the edge of your creep it means a couple things: time to spread creep, time to check on queens too. Note that if you're really aggressive about creep spread, your tumors and injects won't be synchronized, since tumors refresh much faster than injections.
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On November 10 2011 10:36 FindMuck wrote:
In a normal macro game ( 15-20 ingame minutes), 12-14 seconds would be amazing, aiming for 7 seconds in silver league would be impossible unless all you do is stare at your base.
If you could achieve an average of 15 seconds delay like that, just macroing roach hydra into plat would be a breezer.
My macro is not the best, but when i play 15-20 min macro games vs toss (speciall when i go muta harass centric), my injections are around 20 second gaps ;_;
According to Nestea, it's the most important thing to work on as Zerg. It should be more important than winning, and developing a good system that will let you inject on time consistently is probably enough to make you win anyway at lower levels. Creep spread should probably be the next mechanic to work into your play, and then drone timings. Build spines to defend until you get the feel for it enough to get away without building them.
Granted, most of this is stuff I've gleaned from personal experience, so take it with a grain of whatever your favorite spice may be. When I switched to Zerg I applied these principles to my game play and focused on them and found myself holding my own against high platinum players and low diamond within a week.
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Yes but can you honestly look through replays you lost and say "well shoot, I guess my avg 12s inject timings screwed me over, guess that's why I'm in silver"?
I'm making the assumption his injects are much better in the early game and get worse and worse as the game stretches on (as is the case with every single zerg player in the world, pro or amateur). I'm pretty sure his injects aren't 12s when executing low econ scenarios as you specified. Even if it is, it's not why he's in silver. See how useless all this discussion is.
If you want you can look up how many injects you did in the game, multiply the number by 4 to get the number of larva you would get from each of them. Then take your average inject delay % (13 second delays = ~30%) and add that percentage to your larva count. That's how many more you would have had if you had perfect injects.
Example: Say I played a 16.5 minute game totaling 26 injects (using the filter options in SC2gears) for a total of 104 extra larva spawned with a 12 second delay average . Had I injected perfectly I would have gained roughly 30 more larva throughout the game, which is a lot of extra drones or roaches or whatever you build. Another way of looking at it is that a 12 second delay is similar to only spawning 3 larva from each inject rather than 4 because of the delay. If you're fast you get all 4, but if you're not you only get 3. Be fast. Win more.
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Multiple ways to remind yourself to spawn larva:
1. You are spending larva every second you get them, OH you just got 16 larva time to spawn again.
2. You see spawned additional larva alert in top left.
3. Hotkey a hatchery to check the duration on your spawn larva, hotkeying a single hatchery not multiple ones is an easy way to check progress on it.
4. Hotkeying a queen, works until you forget to spawn larva once then your queen no longer has around 25 energy before spawn larva hits.
5. Use game timer to do it every 40 seconds (not sure on the time of it lol)
6. Just remember, Ive played a long time and my game sense just goes to spawn larva right before its done without thinking about it, im one of the lucky ones 
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It takes me about a week to get this down. You just need to build up the muscle memory for it. I always double tap back to my hatch and see the gray bar right below the health bar if your hatchery. The inject methods does not matter much as long as you stock with one. It is faster to do backspace trick during battle. Sometimes I even scroll around the screen and make sure I inject all of the hatches. As long as you don't miss it, you will have so much larva. I checked my injects with the tool you use angst compared that to sheth's injects, I was better than him on injects. I think just that it made me into platinum. Now I am in diamond league.
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Gold-EU/Plat-NA zerg here. I worked on my injects for awhile and am usually at 80-85% according to sc2gears, so 7ish secs. That's for up to 20min games or so, if game goes on longer and I stay maxed for longer periods of time it will drop. Even with good injects however I've had some issues, since with more larvae comes quicker need for ovies, and thus I started supplyblocking myself more. I have yet to play a ZvZ where my opponent "out-injected" me, yet I still lose 45% of my ZvZ since I mess up other things in the macro-cycle.
Also making sure to actually spend my larvae every cycle before building additional stuff (there are exceptions ofcourse) has helped me keep macro good, but oftentimes I fail and end up with tons of larvae (since I focus on the injects) and lots of money because of bad multitasking if I'm being harassed. Esp vs T since 99% of the time they open with reactor hellions and just suicide into my drones, so while trying to keep them alive I forget to macro, etc. Like others have said, I really doubt injects is keeping you in silver, but you might need to do like me and work on actually spending the larvae instantly - otherwise your good injects won't help too much.
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vond has it clear, i also, can get very good injects if i focus onit, but everyone can, its bringing rest of your play up that level, you just gota do everything just abit little bit better x
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Hotkey your queen, check their energy every 10 seconds or so. If its around 25 or above, its inject time. Always spend your extra energy immediately on creep or transfuses when you notice you fell behind then go back to macroing. queen with 200/200 energy doesn't help anything, ideally you never miss injects but you will eventually so spend that energy in some way and then go back to watching it.
In this way you can have a good idea of "how many" injects you missed. If your queens get to 50 energy you missed at least 1 per queen, etc.
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EPT
