[G] Grandmaster by 6pooling, how to - Page 28

On November 18 2011 18:25 Thune wrote:
Who declares that macro is the right game to play? If u can play 6pool all day long and everybody knows you for that and u can still win in GM than u r good. wheres the difference to a player that is doing everygame a banshe opening and still can win in gm allthough everybody knows his builds and timings? or a player who is every game going mech and never play something different and is still able to take second place at battle in berlin?
its just a different playstyle of the game and nothing more or less. if u know whats coming and still u cant win than u simply are worse than ur opponent.

allthough i really hate players who do this and be bm afterwards like u are.

On November 18 2011 18:34 CatNzHat wrote:


The difference that you're missing is that 6 pool + drones every game is not a playstyle, it's cheese, and it has an extremely low skill cap compared to say, a gas first 3 hellion 1 banshee expand into mech build in TvT.

Playing the game hoping that your opponent doesn't have the experience/skills to stop this cheese is not really playing the game at all. Your opponent isn't playing you, they're playing themselves, there's not much difference between a silver level 6 pool and a mid masters level 6 pool, they'll have pretty shitty micro, hit at around the same time, and be pretty much of equivalent effect against the same builds (if your opponent goes 10 pool they should hold pretty easily, if they go 14 gas 14p, they're pretty much dead, e.g.)

Hopefully you don't think that winning a game with 6pool + drones against a gm player makes you good, it doesn't, the difference is that you've been in that situation (cheesing like the scrub you are), let's say 100 times, and they've been in that situation (defending the mindless cheese with their specific build order), maybe a half a dozen times, or maybe 20 times if they ladder a ton. If they know they're going to play you in an important game, they'll have a friend 6 pool them a bunch of games in a row until they can hold it 99% of the time without any issues. The same does not go for "banshee openers", or "mech play".

It's pretty retarded that you can win with 6 pools this easily, I tried it out a few times myself (my mmr is decently high, I had the pleasure of getting 6 pooled by ret a couple days ago...)

On November 18 2011 18:34 CatNzHat wrote:


The difference that you're missing is that 6 pool + drones every game is not a playstyle, it's cheese, and it has an extremely low skill cap compared to say, a gas first 3 hellion 1 banshee expand into mech build in TvT.

Playing the game hoping that your opponent doesn't have the experience/skills to stop this cheese is not really playing the game at all. Your opponent isn't playing you, they're playing themselves, there's not much difference between a silver level 6 pool and a mid masters level 6 pool, they'll have pretty shitty micro, hit at around the same time, and be pretty much of equivalent effect against the same builds (if your opponent goes 10 pool they should hold pretty easily, if they go 14 gas 14p, they're pretty much dead, e.g.)

Hopefully you don't think that winning a game with 6pool + drones against a gm player makes you good, it doesn't, the difference is that you've been in that situation (cheesing like the scrub you are), let's say 100 times, and they've been in that situation (defending the mindless cheese with their specific build order), maybe a half a dozen times, or maybe 20 times if they ladder a ton. If they know they're going to play you in an important game, they'll have a friend 6 pool them a bunch of games in a row until they can hold it 99% of the time without any issues. The same does not go for "banshee openers", or "mech play".

It's pretty retarded that you can win with 6 pools this easily, I tried it out a few times myself (my mmr is decently high, I had the pleasure of getting 6 pooled by ret a couple days ago...)

On November 18 2011 20:21 Zeiasweigha wrote:
I really think pros should try to use this strategy even in tournaments. For example, if Ret (known as a macro player) would suddenly use this strategy, he might get an easy win against some players. But of course, always doing it is a different story

On November 18 2011 20:53 Big J wrote:

well, there is also a difference if you do that on the ladder against a pro who just wants to herpderp around with builds and train his mechanics and earn money by streaming and commentating, or if you do this in a tournament...
A progamer on the ladder will most likely just aclick his stuff against your stuff and queue a new game and all he lost was 2mins of his life, in a tournament game however, he will really try to micro his heart out and he will just know about every risk he takes and most likely not play a build that is bad vs 6pool, if he can't afford to lose.
And even if someone has 60% success with it on the ladder... That's 40% chance of losing. How intelligent is it to use this build if you're Ret, rather than one of his standard builds that has proven to win him a lot of tournaments? (which means it has way more than 60% winchance in his hands)

Also, exactly players like Ret, Idra or NesTea are known to throw in such a build once in a while, if they can afford to lose a game in a boX-series.

On November 18 2011 21:36 Bad_Habit wrote:


you have to count in the blind counters (6 pylon 6 forge) (6 depo 7 rax) (8 pool) of the guys i met twice and more and lose to them (thats like 80% of my loses) same as u have to count in the russian maphack front and some random always 10 pooler etc.

if someone like idra plays against someone like ret, i would consider my strat as a 90% win if u have the mechanics to micro well enough.

On November 18 2011 22:20 Big J wrote:

and I would argue that in this scenario the cheesing player has way less than 50% winchance, simply due to the fact that tournament maps don't suck.
I think you said it yourself at some place... It's not a good strategy on TDA.
Now consider that TDA rushdistance is pretty average in mappools with Crevasse, Terminus, Calm before the storm, Daybreak and so on.

Also I think you have to consider that a player that thinks of himself of being capable to win a tournament, thinks he is capable of having ~80%winrate in the tournament. Why would you want to trade 80% against a coinflip?
Especially as this strategy is a thing you can only do very few times. After that, people will just learn to deal with it and learn to scout vs it when playing against you. And then it's not even a coinflip anymore.

On November 18 2011 22:25 Bad_Habit wrote:


im not saying you can win a tournament by purely doing it. im just saying the chance of taking a map of a very equal player to you is higher than the 50% you usually would have. and a outclassed player can get the favor in his hands by winning a map like this in a series of games because he then will have the momentum.

so i think the cheese really would do well in a tournament same as it could lead to a new mindset of all races to not start to greedy so you have the basic to be econimicwhise ahead by just playing a normal game when ppl would have somewhere back in their mind "hey this dude 6pools like a bozz".

sure when you are nestea (best zerg, even tho hes not perform to his best atm) i would not use such a strat since he should be favorite against everyone (unless mvp probably)

On November 18 2011 22:45 Big J wrote:


but that's the point. You can't go for the build as a standard build. You can throw it in occasionally and that's it. And we see superearly pool builds occasionally. I guess one can argue that it should hapen more often, but how much more?
a lot of protoss players already open Forge first because of 6pools (there is no other reason to go forge before nexus than an early pool).
Terrans in tournaments often start their second supply depot way early, just to deny scouting, but that would also work against a 6pool.
Even zergs like nestea play 10pool builds sometimes and losira has beaten kyrix' early pool 2times with a hatch first build. Arguably it would be possible to outmicro your opponent and get some wins in tournaments with this strategy. But 2days later your former opponent (if he is a pro that cares) will just know about all those tricks himself and then we're back to even.
I don't deny that it is a viable 1 or 2 time thing, but that is what's already happening. I don't deny that it can be improved, but it just comes down to 1 or 2games you might win. That's not the definition of a strategy that can be performed repeatetly, it's a simple cheese and even if some proplayers included it in their repertoire, that would have no impact whatsoever on the current metagame.

On November 18 2011 23:30 Bad_Habit wrote:
im just getting tired that people think im a lowclass human beeing because i made up this strats

On November 18 2011 23:30 Bad_Habit wrote:


i completely agree with you and i never said anything about using it every single game in tournaments. still as you say losira beat kyrix 2 times because kyris just chose the wrong strategy. if he would have used my strategy he would have better chances to win the game (thats at least my opinion and i stand for it). so why waste the games u throw in to cheese (what obvs was the case of kyrix, same as he wants to be unexpectable) with some not layed out 6pools wher eu just produce lings. and not try to perfectionize a 6pool that actually works? sure u might say i spend more time in making up this streats than ill ever gain from them in a tournament. but others could gain if they threw it in once or twice in their lifetime. sure i have nothing from it but isnt there always someone who does such "crap" in your eyes?

im just getting tired that people think im a lowclass human beeing because i made up this strats

On November 19 2011 00:08 Big J wrote:

I'm totally with you that I say:
if I want to do something like this, I better should do it right. Yet I somehow fail to see what the big difference is. I guess there are some microtricks in it and if you train it you can get better with it and seeing how it doesn't take long to greatly improve micro for this strategy, it is definatly worth training it. But I think you're overestimating these things. 6pool mainly works due to metagame reasons, not to due to micro reasons.

also don't think that I consider you "lowclass human being". Also I couldn't care less about what strategy you earned your GM with.
Yet I see why people (including me) get pissed off by kids who try to ruin one's gaming experience with bm. If someone chooses to play unpopular strategies and has success with it, I'm the last one who will tell him to stop. But if that guy keeps flaming around, I see why people (including me) don't like him.

On November 19 2011 00:04 Cascade wrote:

I have not read the 28 pages, so sorry if i repeat, but here are a few question to you habit:
1) You say that many of your loses are from people blind countering you. Which means that you are well above 50% winrate vs "normal" openings. Where with "normal" I mean according to todays metagame. Is this because
---a) people dont know how to react to it when it comes, or
---b) the current metagame has too greedy openings?

On November 19 2011 00:29 Perfect wrote:
After this thread i have gotten six pooled so many times its not even funny. Especially on Xel Naga, one of the smallest maps in the ladder pool. I just dont see how you can beat a terran that scouts at the normal "proper" time. I am not sure if the zerg's im playing (mid masters) are just not good at it, but all i do is pull all my scvs away and run in a circle until my marine pops out and micro accordingly.