EPT
[G] ZvP Roach Ling Muta - Page 6
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RhapsodyZ
Turkey12 Posts
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
http://drop.sc/86182 - GM toss (dRw), going for robo into double stargate http://drop.sc/86187 - LiquidHero (I think), just for the hell of it (or: why 14 14 sucks) Have fun! ps: don't mind my shitty ladder points, I'm switching to terran. | ||
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n0btozz
Iceland115 Posts
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imp42
398 Posts
But decaf already stated that. I probably just have to scout it better. Apart from the I really feel zvp is a battle of denying Protoss' third base. | ||
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FindMuck
63 Posts
Scenario I constantly deny toss' third base. However, he seems to have a solid defense of his 2 main bases, with blink stalkers and.. STORM. Do i transition into a more roach heavy army, or do i just say F**K it and keep making ling even if he is making many hts Also, how do I decide if I can take on his army, or if I should go for a base trade? Judging army size isnt too difficult, but when toss has 5-10 storms available, im not so sure anymore | ||
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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Macpo
453 Posts
cause then I feel that multipronged attacks are overall harder ... | ||
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Iksf
United Kingdom444 Posts
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
On January 11 2012 20:56 Macpo wrote: I have a question: what do you do when protoss has a kind of easy third to take, like tal darim or even more entombed valley? cause then I feel that multipronged attacks are overall harder ... I got entombed valley vetoed, never played a single game on it so I'm not sure. On TDA multipronged attacks (esp with zerglings) are a bit harder when he walls off his 3rd but it's possible. Roaches can hit the gates while mutas harass the main's and nat's mineral lines. Sometimes ling runbys into the main and 3rd work as well while you harass with mutas elsewhere (most Ps forget to put a stalker back at the wall in at the nat when they move stalkers through to defend mutas). Make sure to check out the game vs imakki. | ||
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phzbox
Cape Verde38 Posts
So, yeah, muta. For once, I feel like it's my turn to make them rage. They have to "think" for once, damnit. They can't just turtle and go for a 7 gate push without taking into consideration what the zerg is doing.. And for some reason, I've always found roach to be really bad against protoss. Force field / Colo just eat them alive and in the late game they take so much supply, it's not even funny. I really like the strat because it resists to mostly all first cheese of the game and.. once you hit the mid-game, you stay there. It reminds me orc vs undead at war3.. where orc was so strong t2 that it'd stay there. So, even if undead T3 was in theory stronger, orc would expend and put so much pressure on him that he'd die or be really weak at T3. So with the muta harass, I feel it's a little bit the same thing. If you played well the begin of the game, you're stronger than the toss in mid-game and it's time to mass pressure and expend. And the beauty of all that is.. even if I lose, I feel like the toss tried hard and had to micro and macro.. unlike just getting stalkers colossus and spamming force field. / end of rant. | ||
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XChoke
Australia45 Posts
I use to loathe the toss deathball - it was instant loss but now I feel like I have a fighting chance. As the OP stated, not scouting hidden tech or being too passive (10 minutes without a major engagement) are the only ways I really feel weak. Just take early pushes very seriously (stop droning before the push comes out and mass lings, roaches a few spines with 1/2 spores if DT or stargate pre-emptively) you can easily hold the push and counter attack AND move to a larger economy - leaving your opponent in an awkward position because you trade armies (always focus their gas units as this will starve them and delay tech). My theory why the muta and roach and ling composition really works in mid game is that the constant harass probably overloads the opponents brain with too much information and quick decision making that HAS to be made. Unless they have really solid mechanics and pay attention to the entire mini-map you can hit in two to three places at once or just mix it up and you can tell when they throw in the towel. They just bundle everything up at their natural then usually start to move out about a minute later. I've watched a lot of my replays from my opponents camera POV to try to understand their psyschology. They start missing all sorts of things once you start the constant harass - gasses don't get resaturated, supply blocks occur, they forget training drones and chronos, bases get over and undersaturated, upgrades get forgotten, scouting goes out the window...it must feel like a death from a thousand cuts... Awesome guide <3 | ||
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MapleLeafSirup
Germany950 Posts
one question for the OP: how do you scout/deal with this really fast +1 aggression? its this relatively new build and it owns the 7:00 roach warren timing | ||
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LazinCajun
United States294 Posts
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mapleleafs791
United States225 Posts
On February 10 2012 06:29 MapleLeafSirup wrote: really great guide !! one question for the OP: how do you scout/deal with this really fast +1 aggression? its this relatively new build and it owns the 7:00 roach warren timing What one are your talking about because an FFE/Nex First into +1 4 gate finishes warpgate around 7:40 so the attack hits at 7:40-7:50 + warpgate conversion time + warp in + walk time so you should be fine For that timing the 7:00 warren is sufficient if you make roaches at your 3rd rather than just making roaches from all hatches. If you are scared put a spine there as well. | ||
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ODKStevez
Ireland1225 Posts
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Klumpmeister
United States31 Posts
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Msrobinson
United States138 Posts
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TechSc2
Netherlands554 Posts
On February 10 2012 19:51 Msrobinson wrote: What about vs the early zealot timing? I have been seeing zergs who go quick zerglings to muta get +1 carapace first instead of damage in order to survive the two shot zealots will have by then. Would you consider this to be acceptable for this build, or would you stay with your +1 ranged/melee attack first? Why? You never have +1 carapace done by the 8 minute mark so the point is moot for the early zealot timing. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
-Carapace directly upgrades the lings that you are going to produce along with mutas. -Carapace affects roach too. -Better against immortal timing (i believe toss cant go twilight +2 attack when they do this), when you need to produce more lings but not dying instantly to their reactive zealots warp-ins. | ||
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