EPTI think the idea would be to get a somewhat decent number of sentries early on with something like a 1 gate FE, and then transition into Stalkers once you're on two bases... Do a phoenix scout and if you see a 1-1-1 coming you can make lots of gates to produce a bunch of units, and if you see bio play then you can go either for Templar or Colossi from there and proceed as normal. I feel like Hallucinated Phoenix isn't used all that often in PvT as a scouting method, and I don't know why I don't use it more often now that I'm thinking about it.
[G][D] Everything Hallucination - Page 2
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CrAzEdMiKe
Canada151 Posts
I think the idea would be to get a somewhat decent number of sentries early on with something like a 1 gate FE, and then transition into Stalkers once you're on two bases... Do a phoenix scout and if you see a 1-1-1 coming you can make lots of gates to produce a bunch of units, and if you see bio play then you can go either for Templar or Colossi from there and proceed as normal. I feel like Hallucinated Phoenix isn't used all that often in PvT as a scouting method, and I don't know why I don't use it more often now that I'm thinking about it. | ||
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AnxiousHippo
Australia1451 Posts
Pheonix Pheonixes attack while moving, how would you prevent them from attacking ovies?Force turrets? I've honestly forced turrets (multiple times) after hallucinating 4 phoenix vs Terran players. It is a goal of mine to force spore crawlers as well (I always seem to attack an overlord on accident) | ||
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PikQ
Finland9 Posts
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
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Universum
Canada192 Posts
Top Diamond Protoss here (Because it matters to some!). I actually am researching Hallucination at some point in ALMOST EVERY GAME and EVERY MATCHUP and I found out that there are only one real way you can really make it worth: 1 - Hallucinate phoenix to scout the entire map (Expansions, army position etc...) In lower leagues, I used to hallucinate fake tech such as colossus while I was going High Templar or even hallucinate Immortals to tank damage whilst in battle (They do keep their shield effect). However, in higher leagues, all players have detection and spots right away the hallucinated units and never falls for them. In battle, as soon as the hallucinations are spot by a detector, the Units AI stops attaking them making them not viable. Plus, having a strategy based around hallucination, makes you rely on a more heavy sentry count, which leads to an army having less dps early/mid game. Take my advice with a grain of salt, but after about 2000 games using hallucination almost everytime, those are my conclusions. | ||
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Truedot
444 Posts
On September 20 2011 13:04 quillian wrote: For colossus: Hallucinated colossus are awesome at soaking viking or corrupter damage in big fights. If you haven't used hallucinate much yet in the game you can often catch them by surprise and overwhelm them with a huge colossus force. Void ray: one of the best feints. showing off 6+ halu void rays at the edge of their vision can cause major over-reaction. that depends on the timing. and if you don't attack with 6 void rays when Im weak against air, Im assuming you're not sure you can win. throw down hydra den and scout your base. No stargate? pff. 1 stargate, build 4-6 hydras that can synergetically work with queens and can go on the offensive if you never attack. Overreactions are for chumps. if its late game, build mutas, find out there's no VRs, go stomping probes. | ||
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Xalorian
Canada433 Posts
Looking forward to watch this more and more  Do you have any good replays? | ||
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Fairwell
Austria195 Posts
I'm pretty sure everyone knows what hallucination can be used for, in reality though in pvp getting enough sentries in order to use hallucination loses to 90% of all toss who go robo anyways, you basically sac tech of one base to get those sentries which help none in robo battles with their hallu (only gs and sometimes some ff useful in only immo+gateway and non colossi battles). In pvt you can fake tech like fast colossus but it's hard since they often like to scan or just stim an run a single marine to your nat before you can see it (not coming right from the xel naga you might have but rather from the side). In the midgame it gets pretty useless since terran will use emp on your army already and happen to kill of your hallus automatically. Apart from that chargelots with good upgrades do quite some dps in pvt, if you hallu them they block your real ones from doing dmg. If you hallucinate archons there, they will get emped for obvious reasons. In pvz hallu+gateway pushes can force units from the zerg or provide a meatshield with zealots in some ocasions (why in some? well because most of the time ff for the same energy does the job better). In midgame-lategame pvz most zerg atm run a ton of infestors and fg spam your army, from that point on hallus/dts in your main army don't work that well (dts in main army or hallu colossi vs corruptors for example worked quite well in the old pvz metagame). Where I've been able to use hallu consistently successful: - holding thor rushes in pvt (getting stargate asap for voids or if you happened to open quick robo get immos instead and rest pure zealot-sentry, since stalkers don't do well vs it, on small maps it's close but on bigger maps if you wait on top of your ramp and spread out you get hallu when he pushes up ... you will only need one gs vs marines anyways) - pvz gateway+hallu pushes (mentioned above) - pvz hallu colossi (in infestormetagame not useful, they will detect it automatically with fg spam and most of the time don't even bother to make corruptors since np does the job ... but maybe with patch 1.4 and np nerf incoming might be worth again) - pvz hallu phoenix scouting - pvz fake prism to some base while warping in somewhere else or attacking straight up (you should have done at least one warpin drop that game already, zerg will take the fake prism seriously for sure then) So again, plz provide some replays of your meatshield usesage where your gas spent on those extra sentries (you need more sentries because you still want to be able to have ff+gs) or a real advantage over ff. Especially with archon hallus vs infestor play and terrans. I'm sure this would help all those people reading the thread a lot. | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
i reflected myself on hallucination as alternative to rush to robo for the sake of early scouting. the idea with fake phoenixes to deplete pdd energy is also ingenious. only 100 gas and 80 seconds. definitely a lot of unused potential in this spell. my question would be, do units ignore hallucinations if there is detection available? e.g., we have hallucinated zealots in front and real stalker in the back, will marauders autotarget stalkers (if there is a raven in the air)? | ||
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Beardedclam
United States839 Posts
On September 20 2011 13:55 Conquerer67 wrote: Wait, what? With or without burrow micro? Because whenever I play, the protoss just a-moves, spilts me in half, then when my ultras shatter the FFs, he carpet storms my roaches and then focus-fires down my ultras. What micro do you do? :D Protoss doesn't just A-move. Zerg is actually the A move race. Their macro is just more demanding so that compensates for it. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2594 Posts
The one issue that I think always needs to be kept in mind when looking at potential uses for Hallucination in a battle (like using Immortals to tank) is that you have to keep the opportunity cost of two force fields in mind. There are definitely situations, like charging into a Tank line, where three Immortals will be more valuable to you than six force fields, but in other situations you're going to reduce your opponent's DPS more by holding units out of attack range than by giving them an alternative target. | ||
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E.H Eager
United States227 Posts
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RubiksCube
Germany259 Posts
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E.H Eager
United States227 Posts
On September 20 2011 22:23 RubiksCube wrote: Hallucinated Collossus, no matter if detected or not, are awesome to prevent focus fire if you park them above your army, similar to what zergs do with massive amounts of overlords. But is that really worth the forcefields that you have wasted? I can see it being helpful, but only in very specific situations (when you have like two immortals vs mass roach). | ||
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Xalorian
Canada433 Posts
On September 20 2011 22:12 E.H Eager wrote: This is awesome. Do you know how the targeting AI works for units who can see hallucinations? Do they attack them even if though they can see seem? Do you have to manually attack the real units? Or can you just a-move if you have detection? You can just A-Move. If you detect them, the autotargeting will target only real units. | ||
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E.H Eager
United States227 Posts
On September 20 2011 22:27 Xalorian wrote: You can just A-Move. If you detect them, the autotargeting will target only real units. Thanks, makes it a little less viable for straight up fights, but definitely still has some uses. | ||
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DreamChaser
1649 Posts
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RubiksCube
Germany259 Posts
On September 20 2011 22:25 E.H Eager wrote: But is that really worth the forcefields that you have wasted? I can see it being helpful, but only in very specific situations (when you have like two immortals vs mass roach). I usually do that vs. Mass Flying Units to prevent their target fire. Can be quiete effective and forcefields wouldnt help anyways. | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
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E.H Eager
United States227 Posts
On September 20 2011 23:02 ShatterZer0 wrote: It's actually pretty funny to watch terrans pull scv's to take on a supposed 6 gate 2 base timing.... because you "pulled probes"... then you just park in front of their base and watch them fortify until there's no tomorrow! Ha, that's awesome; I'm going to have to try that. I feel like it has a lot of viability as a scare tactic, or as something to force a huge unnecessary response. Also, Day[9] needs to do a funday monday with hallucination... | ||
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