EPTShield + 1 tank makes this pretty obvious... Atleast for that scenario
TVT GSL Why Combat Shield before stim? - Page 2
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Penatronic
150 Posts
Shield + 1 tank makes this pretty obvious... Atleast for that scenario | ||
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ProxyPL
Poland230 Posts
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Soulish
Canada1403 Posts
On August 31 2011 03:00 Squigly wrote: I doubt this, id bet stim>shield in a fight. Source? Stim loses to shield | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
it negates stim. so really all u need to do is retreat ur own marines until their stim runs out and walah ur way ahead!! stim is only good with medivacs. | ||
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reikai
United States359 Posts
On August 31 2011 05:14 PhiliBiRD wrote: if they go stim and u go shield, when u engage they will have only 35 hp vs ur 55 hp. it negates stim. so really all u need to do is retreat ur own marines until their stim runs out and walah ur way ahead!! stim is only good with medivacs. I sort of agree with the last bit, that stim is only good with medivacs. I think it can be better stated by saying that the later the game goes, stim is better, but combat shield has it's place earlier on for not dying to cheese and early pressure builds :D I'm surprised nobody has mentioned MarineKing's combat shield rush! (vs MMA in the GSL where MMA lost 0-4 in the finals :/) | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
On August 31 2011 03:00 Squigly wrote: I doubt this, id bet stim>shield in a fight. Source? No, a stimmed marine without shields loses to a shields marine without stim. Its common knowledge, try it on a custom editer if you like. Think about it, a 35 HP marine beating a 55 HP marine? On the topic of which one to get first, get combat shields first if you don't have medivacs, are staying defensive, and the other player isn't getting banshees because you absoulely need stim to kill banshees. Get stim first if you are planning to be agrressive, have medivacs, or the other player has banshees. Getting stim without medivacs is not good, or else your marines literally kill themselves because there is no way to heal up the 10 damage the marines are doing to themselves every time they stim. In TvZ, it is very situational about which one to get first. Against zerg, you really need to mobility that stim offers to defend against mutalisks, but on the other hand, if you stim without shields, then banelings and infestors one-shot your marines. So, I would still say shields first. Against protoss, shields first because 35 HP stimmed marines aren't as strong as 55 HP un-stimmed marines. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
Ignoring anything complex. After 6 seconds, the unstimmed has done 42 damage, the stimmed has done over 60. The stimmed wins. Ive seen the number 35 HP thrown around here. I havent checked in game, but liquipedia says 45 as i thought. EDIT: You can stim maruders too, so against P id say stim first every single time. | ||
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alia
United States294 Posts
On August 31 2011 05:26 Squigly wrote: I think i dont know something obvious lol. A marines has 45 HP without shield, 55 with. Ignoring anything complex. After 6 seconds, the unstimmed has done 42 damage, the stimmed has done over 60. The stimmed wins. Ive seen the number 35 HP thrown around here. I havent checked in game, but liquipedia says 45 as i thought. EDIT: You can stim maruders too, so against P id say stim first every single time. Uh... Stim costs 10 hp. | ||
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Tobon
United States372 Posts
On August 31 2011 05:26 Squigly wrote: I think i dont know something obvious lol. A marines has 45 HP without shield, 55 with. Ignoring anything complex. After 6 seconds, the unstimmed has done 42 damage, the stimmed has done over 60. The stimmed wins. Ive seen the number 35 HP thrown around here. I havent checked in game, but liquipedia says 45 as i thought. A marine with no shield has 45, but as soon as you hit the stim button they lose 10 health, so 35 HP left when they engage. After 5 seconds, the stimmed marine is dead, and the combat shield marine has just a few HP left. | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
On August 31 2011 05:26 Squigly wrote: I think i dont know something obvious lol. A marines has 45 HP without shield, 55 with. Ignoring anything complex. After 6 seconds, the unstimmed has done 42 damage, the stimmed has done over 60. The stimmed wins. Ive seen the number 35 HP thrown around here. I havent checked in game, but liquipedia says 45 as i thought. EDIT: You can stim maruders too, so against P id say stim first every single time. With marauders, yes, stim first becasue mauders are so much better with stim. However, with pure marines, shields first. | ||
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Drygioni
Japan379 Posts
On August 31 2011 05:14 PhiliBiRD wrote: if they go stim and u go shield, when u engage they will have only 35 hp vs ur 55 hp. it negates stim. so really all u need to do is retreat ur own marines until their stim runs out and walah ur way ahead!! stim is only good with medivacs. Wouldn't it be better just to engage with the shield marines vs stimmed? If you retreat the stimmed ones get lots of free shots off, kinda negating the advantage of the 20 extra HP I'd think. So in a pure marine vs pure marine battle, assuming shield wins out, I think you should just engage. | ||
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
vs Sieged Tanks: Goes from 1 shot to 2 shot vs Banshees: Goes from 1 shot to 2 shot vs Ghost Snipe: Goes from 1 shot to 2 shot I always get combat shield first in TvT unless I'm trying to bust a bunker or something. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
A stimmed unshielded marine has 35 hp, marines do 6 damage per shot so it can survive 6 hits. A shielded marine has 55 hp, again marines do 6 damage per shot so it can survive 10 hits. A marine's attack cooldown is 0.8608 seconds(  Marine) which stim reduces to 0,57387.Thus, a shielded marine needs 6 hits multiplied by 0.8608 seconds or 5,1648 seconds to kill a stimmed unshielded marine. On the other hand, a stimmed marine needs 10 hits multiplied by 0,57387 seconds or 5,7387 seconds to kill a shielded marine. Note: The 9th stimmed attack and the 6th unstimmed attack happen simultaneously(exactly at 5.1648 seconds) and as such it will be random which marine fires first. In either case however the stimmed marine will die, the only difference is if the shielded marine survives with 7 hp, or with 1 hp. | ||
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fishinguy
Russian Federation798 Posts
On August 31 2011 06:06 RoboBob wrote: Stim vs Combat Shields on Marines in TvT: vs Sieged Tanks: Goes from 1 shot to 2 shot vs Banshees: Goes from 1 shot to 2 shot vs Ghost Snipe: Goes from 1 shot to 2 shot I always get combat shield first in TvT unless I'm trying to bust a bunker or something. Blue flame hellions also take 1 more shot to kill marines. | ||
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
On August 31 2011 05:26 Squigly wrote: I think i dont know something obvious lol. A marines has 45 HP without shield, 55 with. Ignoring anything complex. After 6 seconds, the unstimmed has done 42 damage, the stimmed has done over 60. The stimmed wins. Ive seen the number 35 HP thrown around here. I havent checked in game, but liquipedia says 45 as i thought. EDIT: You can stim maruders too, so against P id say stim first every single time. Not sure if serious or.. | ||
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BioTech
Australia264 Posts
Unless u have medivacs overhead then CS > stim. And it researches quicker! | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
Each stim takes away a lot of HP from your units | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On August 31 2011 03:00 Squigly wrote: I doubt this, id bet stim>shield in a fight. Source? You're wrong. It's the exact same reason you want combat shield marines vs Zerglings instead of Stim. The marines are far better with combat shields. Of course, if they have banelings you'd much rather have stim, since you can't run from them effectively otherwise! | ||
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HypertonicHydroponic
437 Posts
In case there is still any question about the merits of getting Shield before Stim, recall to mind the timeless Terran nursery rhyme: Shield is Faster. Shield is Cheaper. Shield lets you Afford a Reaper. -- Brother Grim + Show Spoiler + I'm sure stim first has its benefits, but I just *had* to throw that out there...  | ||
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