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jlai
Hong Kong63 Posts
I have been watching some TVT GSL matches and i do see players getting combat shield before stim. e.g. OptimusPrime.WE VS MVP_Keen Code S Round of 8 Aug GSL It's not the first time that i see this. Is there any reason behind it? At first glance, my thought would be due to the no. of hits they take from banshee or blue flame hellion before dying. Any thoughts? Does it also depend on whether you want to defend after FE or attack for all in? Thanks! | ||
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nrv
United States113 Posts
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minimalistic
Hungary157 Posts
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Nibbler89
884 Posts
It's not always better to choose one over the other depends what you want to do. But those are some facts that can affect the choice, | ||
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thobel
United States37 Posts
Combat shield, on the other hand, you'll always use because its passive. I've found that its better when you plan on defending for a bit, especially for fast expand openings and things. | ||
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n0ise
3452 Posts
also, it's faster | ||
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jlai
Hong Kong63 Posts
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On August 31 2011 02:45 Nibbler89 wrote: If you stim without combat shield you get 1 shot by siege tank. Also combat shield marines without stim beat marines with stim but no combat shield. It's not always better to choose one over the other depends what you want to do. But those are some facts that can affect the choice, I doubt this, id bet stim>shield in a fight. Source? | ||
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Nexic
United States729 Posts
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nrv
United States113 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Cycle
United States300 Posts
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On August 31 2011 03:00 Squigly wrote: I doubt this, id bet stim>shield in a fight. Source? Liquipedia says 10.5 dps for stim, 7 for nonstim. Simple math tells you that combat shields wins in this case. Plus shields is faster to research. | ||
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Nexic
United States729 Posts
On August 31 2011 03:05 Cycle wrote: You can do a blueflame + shields timing or maybbbe super fast tank + shield marines push, but normally you want stim first. I've also seen MMA get Combat Shield before Stim a few times in TvZ, and he did a push with it, so I don't know if it's always just defensive. Does anyone know about timings involving that? | ||
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LionsFist
Australia164 Posts
On August 31 2011 03:08 rauk wrote: Liquipedia says 10.5 dps for stim, 7 for nonstim. Simple math tells you that combat shields wins in this case. Plus shields is faster to research. Simple math? I would have thought it'd be rather complex given that the DPS of the army slowly drops as the more units die... For those who haven't worked it out, 10.5 dps to a 55 health unit = 19% max health per second, 7 dps to 35 health unit = 20% max health per second. The problem arises when the stim marines get off the first shot because they're stimmed. Not to mention that the stim marines always have the choice of when to engage or back out, while the normal marines can't afford that luxury. They're almost guaranteed to get a better concave too... That said, the benefits of the extra hit from banshees/BFH definately make it better TvT choice. The straight up combat aspects though of marine v marine isn't so clearcut. | ||
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Saishuuheiki
United States188 Posts
After a stim, a marine has 35 hit points. At 6 damage per shot it takes 6 shots to kill, or 6 seconds for an unstimmed marine. With a combat shield, at 55 hit points a marine takes 9 shots to kill. Which, conveniently, takes 6 seconds. The simple math indicates that it's a tie if 1 marine with a combat shield fights 1 stimmed marine without shield. Thus, it is safe to say in a pure marine v marine fight, combat shield is probably better. This is due to the fact that stim does wear out eventually, and even with stim, it merely brings the fight to equal ground. Note that if you're playing aggressive and trying to break your opponents defence with marines, stim may be better. Outside factors such as moving up a ramp or fighting against a bunker may favor stimpack over combat shield. Plus, if you start stimpack first and start combat shield before stim is done, you will have both available before you would otherwise. This can lead to certain timings favoring stim first. | ||
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Corvi
Germany1406 Posts
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On August 31 2011 03:17 LionsFist wrote: Stim doesn't fire the first attack any faster than non-stim. You can't go faster than instant.The problem arises when the stim marines get off the first shot because they're stimmed. Not to mention that the stim marines always have the choice of when to engage or back out, while the normal marines can't afford that luxury. They're almost guaranteed to get a better concave too... Also, your argument about stimmed marines being able to choose when to engage or disengage is a bit flawed imho. They can indeed choose when to engage, but to use stim to run away at the stage in the game where you only have 1 upgrade instead of 2? Stimming in such a situation is likely to hurt more than help since you do not have medivacs. Not to mention all the other things mentioned in the thread so far, banshees/hellions requiring an extra hit, tanks oneshotting stimmed no-shield marines, etc. | ||
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