EPT[G] PvZ -- Ultimate Solution: Warp Prisms - Page 5
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
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ApocAlypsE007
Israel1007 Posts
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Fairwell
Austria195 Posts
On August 30 2011 09:19 Kluey wrote: Wouldn't you die if the Zerg is going for a 2 base play? I mean... 4 zealots won't do much is he's massing an army. Usually a Zerg is already drones by 7 minutes and will start to produce army. If you check out the replays of the OP you'll see that he is able to keep his money quite low by good usage of cb/using his warping cycles/basically produce nonstop prism/immos out of his robo. With the leftover money at the point where his worker count starts to get beyond 50 on 2 base he is already starting to think about a 3rd base which (depending on the gameflow) he is trying to take around 9-10min (in some matches it was a bit later or even cancelled, whenever he is able to do so). He adds more gateways later on when his 3rd base is on the way or up and running ofc. Constant production out of a robo (prism/immos) actually consumes quite some ressources as well, hence why he gets away with 4 gateways till that point in the game. | ||
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Gatored
United States679 Posts
Major props man. I love it! I get 2 warp prisms later on though. You can spread out the zerg army so hard. The super quick +1 is insane as well. <3<3<3 Will definitely be playing around with this build every PvZ where I can FFE. Also the lovely thing is both the immortal and warp prism are getting buffs. Fun times incoming  | ||
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Noumena
United States85 Posts
On August 31 2011 03:18 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: Can this style work vs Terran? I was working on similar style vs Terran a month or two ago and done some play test with mixed results. I was thinking more on the lines of quickly teching to Chargelots and Archons but with less warp-prism use. To a certain extent, yes, the same concepts will apply. However with Terran you can't do the early aggression with pure Zealots for obvious reasons, and you will want to create a bigger main army with a single Prism harassing. Generally I like to open 1 gate FE into Robo, into 3 more gates. This holds off a good number of openings, and allows me to use Warp Prisms. Really glad to see everyone is enjoying the build! | ||
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
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dooraven
Australia2820 Posts
Now if only I had an opener that doesn't put me behind on maps where I can't FFE. | ||
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Noumena
United States85 Posts
On August 31 2011 09:35 TolEranceNA wrote: Just a question OP, which type of zerg defense usually works well against your build? Or rather, which type of zerg defense and play style you would have the most trouble with this heavy-warp prism usage build? It is great when i ladder as toss, but i would love to know how to stop/deal with it accordingly. Or you won't share its weakness with us :p Honestly, I am not exactly sure. To put it in better terms, it isn't a build but more of an opening like someone else in this thread has mentioned. Just because a Terran gets Medivacs and uses them to drop, it doesn't make their build a "Medivac build." The versatility with this opening is what makes it so strong, and as the Protoss player you are able to adapt and react according to what the Zerg defends with and decides to make. Unfortunately, I can't really tell you how to stop/deal with it because I am not a Zerg player and don't have enough knowledge to really suggest anything. As for the scouting, I am not controlling your hands or your play style You can scout earlier if you'd like. | ||
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
On August 31 2011 09:59 Noumena wrote: Honestly, I am not exactly sure. To put it in better terms, it isn't a build but more of an opening like someone else in this thread has mentioned. Just because a Terran gets Medivacs and uses them to drop, it doesn't make their build a "Medivac build." The versatility with this opening is what makes it so strong, and as the Protoss player you are able to adapt and react according to what the Zerg defends with and decides to make. Unfortunately, I can't really tell you how to stop/deal with it because I am not a Zerg player and don't have enough knowledge to really suggest anything. As for the scouting, I am not controlling your hands or your play style You can scout earlier if you'd like.Thanks for the reply, i guess i will have to make 3 spines and 1 spore at my base when i see heavy warp prism usages :[ , at least they will be useful for DTs after  | ||
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Thugtronik
New Zealand452 Posts
obviously since he made the mistake of building two it kinda worked in his favour since he had only built about 7 hydra when i sniped the first den. however, if in a normal game he had just built one and i hadnt managed to kill it how do i respond? i feel like archons, storm or colossus are too far away for me to get them out in time to respond to a hydra bust? replay is below. my macro is terrible of course, only just got back into playing 1v1 and my mechanics are pretty rusty. diamond level btw. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-229249.jpg) p.s. noumena i love you for posting this guide <3 im a bit below 50% winrate with this cos i'm still getting the hang of the multitasking but goddamn i'm having fun with it. warp prisms are the shit cant wait for the next patch edit: watching my replay i can see that my twilight council was at least 1:30 slower than it could have been. i guess dropping that faster and getting charge straight away means my zealots can handle hydra ling? then after charge has started throw down a templar archives? | ||
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DrKillface
Australia106 Posts
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Noumena
United States85 Posts
On August 31 2011 11:33 Thugtronik wrote: Just lost a game against a zerg who went 2 base hydra ling. my 4 zealot pressure killed 2 queens, lots of lings and a couple drones. first prism harass after that scouted the hydra den and i killed it only to discover he had built two hydra dens (wat?). zealots were killed before being able to take that down. he then just rallied hydra ling to my front door and I couldn't hold it. obviously since he made the mistake of building two it kinda worked in his favour since he had only built about 7 hydra when i sniped the first den. however, if in a normal game he had just built one and i hadnt managed to kill it how do i respond? i feel like archons, storm or colossus are too far away for me to get them out in time to respond to a hydra bust? replay is below. my macro is terrible of course, only just got back into playing 1v1 and my mechanics are pretty rusty. diamond level btw. p.s. noumena i love you for posting this guide <3 im a bit below 50% winrate with this cos i'm still getting the hang of the multitasking but goddamn i'm having fun with it. warp prisms are the shit cant wait for the next patch edit: watching my replay i can see that my twilight council was at least 1:30 slower than it could have been. i guess dropping that faster and getting charge straight away means my zealots can handle hydra ling? then after charge has started throw down a templar archives? Upgraded Charge lots will pretty much handle any type of hydra/ling aggression, and if you are able to have a Warp Prism in his base using maybe 1/4 Gates to make him waste a bit of APM at home, then even better. Never be afraid to throw up some extra Cannons, as they will take care of the Lings quite nicely. If you so desire, you can transition into Colossus since you already have the Robo, but I personally like Templar better because of Archon warp ins. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On August 31 2011 02:56 junemermaid wrote: Hmmmm, I haven't really used colossus in PvZ / PvT since I hate them so much (and sentries to an extent). You find ways to deal with hydra aggression as protoss. Blink Stalker & armor upgrades w/ sentry works well until HT are out (with immortals to deal with roaches). The key is to not be surprised by the hydras when they walk up in to your base, which hallucination provides. Blink stalkers are pretty much a swiss army knife against zerg until infestors come out, and its just a small leap to HT from them, so there really isn't a scenario where opening blink stalkers is bad. Also, chargelot flanks really put the hurt on hydras. Anytime you're trading minerals for minerals and gas is good, just save the merchandise when things start to get dicey (sentries, HT, stalkers especially). Too many protoss players are losing stalkers willy-nilly and I can attribute most of my losses to this happening. I'm around 600 points in masters (~100 games played). Thanks for the response. I share your disdain for collosus, though I have had trouble microing blink stalkers against hydras. This led me back to collosus-tech. | ||
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Avan
Brazil121 Posts
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Noumena
United States85 Posts
On September 01 2011 00:00 Avan wrote: I've always wanted to know: how do you keep your APM above 300 at 15 seconds? People always say 'Oh, you just need to spam'. What does that mean, exactly? Because your APM, Noumena, hit 514 at 20 seconds, more or less. I wanna do that too >.> Well , what I do to get that high early APM is going through my control groups and selecting workers. Mostly it's to get my hands ready to be moving that fast later on, but normally I'll only average low 200's at the end of the game. That is part of the reason this strategy works so well for me, is I have a decent capability to move fast and multi task | ||
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XelNaga89
Serbia2 Posts
I must confess that I have one major concern. This strat feels a bit OP (10 of 10 so far on ladder, none game was even close) so I hope blizz won't decide to nerf warp prisms instead of buff in new patch. ^^ If you manage to pull out some simiilar pvt (hopefully not a pvp :D) build you will become my favourite toss. | ||
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Styrene
Armenia3 Posts
On September 01 2011 11:13 XelNaga89 wrote: This build is just amazing! Smashed some top masters zerg today. Again. And I'm not nearly executing it optimal. I must confess that I have one major concern. This strat feels a bit OP (10 of 10 so far on ladder, none game was even close) so I hope blizz won't decide to nerf warp prisms instead of buff in new patch. ^^ If you manage to pull out some simiilar pvt (hopefully not a pvp :D) build you will become my favourite toss. First just wanted to say thank you to Noumena for writing up this guide. I have been struggling badly with Zerg lately (High Plats/Low Diamonds) because I was unable to force pressure with the builds I was using but this strategy is spectacular for that purpose! They couldn't really nerf the Prism any more than it is now, the problem with this strategy and how effective it is the warp in mechanic they built into our race. It is really hard to balance around since if used properly by players like Noumena, White-Ra and some others it is really hard to stop. But then again I think this is one of those moments that iNcontrol mentioned on STOG about how the players get accustomed to being able to do a certain build and still expect to win. Most of the zerg I've played when they spot my ForgeFE they go for a quick third which is pretty much instant death, at least in my experiences in plat. A few Zergs that saw the build for what it was went for a strong 2 Base Roach/Infestor compositon that caused some big problems for me. TL;DR I think before any Zerg come in here and claim OP they should experiment with some strong 2 base play. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
For the zerg asking about counters, how about defensive infestors to fungal the prisms? | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
You're advocating the use of primarily zealots against lings... So how do you stop zergs that will mix in speed banes? | ||
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Noumena
United States85 Posts
On September 01 2011 21:00 neoghaleon55 wrote: My question is You're advocating the use of primarily zealots against lings... So how do you stop zergs that will mix in speed banes? I am advocating the primary use of Zealots, yes. However, I am not advocating that you ONLY use Zealots, rather to use Archons/immortals/etc. Have you ever seen speed banes vs Archons ? If they are quick Banelings, then I would just suggest doing Zealot drops on a group of Banes and since it takes quite a few banelings to kill a Zealot, you will always come out on top. Really banelings would be a bad choice imo. Thanks everyone for your kind words, keep on winning those PvZs | ||
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