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[G] PvZ -- Ultimate Solution: Warp Prisms - Page 7

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Ahrun
Profile Joined July 2011
United States100 Posts
September 04 2011 19:55 GMT
#121
I've lost to stuff like this. Zealots everywhere at my bases. A few sentries are killer ffing off my ramps, taking out all my tech, I went roaches and then immortals from the robo after he had enough warp prisms destroyed me. This is very very powerful, if new patch goes through, well let's just say I might not be playing zerg nearly as much and it also says the warp prism really doesn't need a buff, it just needs to be used better.
Hit them, if they don't die hit em again and again and again. - Zerg Swarm training school
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
September 04 2011 20:46 GMT
#122
this build is awesome

weaknesses: mutaling (if caught off guard) or roach rushes
lalala
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
September 04 2011 22:50 GMT
#123
tried this once. Very fun style to play and +1 zealots vs zling/drone/ queen is amazing
Ea
Profile Joined March 2011
United States121 Posts
September 05 2011 07:23 GMT
#124
Anyone have a replay with success vs. 2 base muta? I had success vs. 2 base hydra since chargelots+archons rip them apart, but no success vs muta
andas
Profile Joined August 2011
Norway11 Posts
September 05 2011 07:58 GMT
#125
Been playing this for a few days and can only say that it works very well and it has quickly made the zerg matchup my best.

I'm in gold - so here's my perspective from lower level play: there is few in gold / plat that quickly expands to third unlike higher levels where this build is at its best. Those who do however is often quickly forced to gg.

What I have lost to:

1 base roach all inns should be easy to hold with plenty of cannons, I made 5-6. Do not have any holes where they can just run into your main btw... Was punished hard for that one.

Nydus in main with roach from 2 bases. After that I have made more pylons in main instead of randomly puttting them around (should of course be obvious - remember - I'm in gold

3-4 games where I just make one prism and don't use it very well and I generally play against a better player.

Never lost when I use two prisms and harass at the same time as larger engagements.



Audere Est Facere
Daniello
Profile Joined February 2011
Poland127 Posts
September 05 2011 08:20 GMT
#126
It's so simple but I have never thought of it. I guess the reason for that is my incomprehension of the strategy part of SC2. But I have to say, I tried to incorporate few things from this guide into my PvZ with hell of a success. Simply build few Zealots with +1, then add warp prism, and after that dump money intro production and tech. Good old zerg pressure - everyone know that it's necessary, but how to do that effectively is always the question. Well, now I know how. 5 wins with zerg so far in Diamond EU for me, where I had like 30% overall ratio vZ before.
Meff
Profile Joined June 2010
Italy287 Posts
September 05 2011 12:53 GMT
#127
On September 05 2011 03:47 Skyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2011 03:01 Meff wrote:
On September 05 2011 01:35 WoolySheep wrote:
Mak - I encountered fast mutas the first time I tried this on shakuras plateau, and all you need to do is swtich to stalkers with a couple archons. add a couple more cannons to your mineral lines and then when you feel ready, push out. He can't harass your base when you attack him or else you will win the base trade, and the stalkers should mop up the mutas while archons tank the lings that he would be making alongside them.

edit - I will agree the 3rd is hard to take, if not impossible.

Can you post the replay for this, please? My experience as Z is that when playing ling/muta vs archon/stalker the stalkers auto-target the zerglings due to them being closer than mutas. It usually doesn't end that well for P if the armies are comparable in resources (more or less: 1 muta and 6 zerglings every 2 stalkers, 5 mutas every 2 archons).


You want to mix in some zealots to deal with the lings, and try to blink the stalkers right underneath the mutas after you engage. Also if possible you want to FF the mutas with your archons (if you have more than a few archons it's likely not all the archons are in range so just select each archon that is in range of the mutas individually and target the mutas). It only takes like a couple of archon hits to destroy packs of mutas due to splash. Guardian shield is also very important.

Yeah, I wasn't implying that there is no way to deal with muta+ling. I'm just saying that "switching to stalkers and mixing in a couple archons" doesn't seem to describe a good way to fight the composition. I wanted to see the replay to check if WoolySheep actually meant to mix in stalkers, or if there was a sufficient head start to be able to mass enough stalkers to just trounce the zerg before army numbers got high, or... whatever else might interfere with theorycraft, which only goes so far.

(I'm also somewhat doubtful about blinking right underneath the mutas, since that looks like it would defeat the purpose of having zealots to tank the lings - it sort of messes up with archon positioning, too. That is an entirely different remark from my skepticism about pure stalker+archon, however)
andas
Profile Joined August 2011
Norway11 Posts
September 06 2011 19:48 GMT
#128
Just a couple of replays (victories) I've had with this play. I would be happy if someone could point out what I could have done better and if I'm doing this right. As far as I see, I'm kind of doing the build ok, but would be happy to hear comments.

http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/06-09-11/207755-PaintUser-VS-Andas.html

http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/06-09-11/207691-Andas-VS-veteranBane.html#s_units_gd
Audere Est Facere
Skyro
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1823 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-06 21:35:27
September 06 2011 21:34 GMT
#129
On September 05 2011 21:53 Meff wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2011 03:47 Skyro wrote:
On September 05 2011 03:01 Meff wrote:
On September 05 2011 01:35 WoolySheep wrote:
Mak - I encountered fast mutas the first time I tried this on shakuras plateau, and all you need to do is swtich to stalkers with a couple archons. add a couple more cannons to your mineral lines and then when you feel ready, push out. He can't harass your base when you attack him or else you will win the base trade, and the stalkers should mop up the mutas while archons tank the lings that he would be making alongside them.

edit - I will agree the 3rd is hard to take, if not impossible.

Can you post the replay for this, please? My experience as Z is that when playing ling/muta vs archon/stalker the stalkers auto-target the zerglings due to them being closer than mutas. It usually doesn't end that well for P if the armies are comparable in resources (more or less: 1 muta and 6 zerglings every 2 stalkers, 5 mutas every 2 archons).


You want to mix in some zealots to deal with the lings, and try to blink the stalkers right underneath the mutas after you engage. Also if possible you want to FF the mutas with your archons (if you have more than a few archons it's likely not all the archons are in range so just select each archon that is in range of the mutas individually and target the mutas). It only takes like a couple of archon hits to destroy packs of mutas due to splash. Guardian shield is also very important.

Yeah, I wasn't implying that there is no way to deal with muta+ling. I'm just saying that "switching to stalkers and mixing in a couple archons" doesn't seem to describe a good way to fight the composition. I wanted to see the replay to check if WoolySheep actually meant to mix in stalkers, or if there was a sufficient head start to be able to mass enough stalkers to just trounce the zerg before army numbers got high, or... whatever else might interfere with theorycraft, which only goes so far.

(I'm also somewhat doubtful about blinking right underneath the mutas, since that looks like it would defeat the purpose of having zealots to tank the lings - it sort of messes up with archon positioning, too. That is an entirely different remark from my skepticism about pure stalker+archon, however)


Zealots are not there to just tank but to actually kill the lings as well. Blinking stalkers under the mutas will cause a portion of your stalkers to target the mutas just because of the targeting AI. Sure I mean obviously don't blink stalkers if their mutas are behind their lings but 99% of the time their mutas will flank from another side and focus fire your stalkers as he knows he can clean up your zealots if all you stalkers are killed.

But really if you have zealot/archon/stalker you'll probably destroyo mutaling with little micro, the issue is just making them engage your army w/o ramming your head into his wall of spinecrawlers. I've lately been grabbing my 3rd during the initial warp prism harass and if I spot mutas I'll grab blink ASAP and cannon up all my bases, then focus on denying the zerg 3rd which on most maps is a lot harder for zerg to defend than their main base and natural and eventually just wittle them down.
RRjr
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany40 Posts
September 07 2011 10:41 GMT
#130
Doesn't the amount of scouting coming out of this build make it very easy to spot the spire? So why not just build one or two stargates in response and pump Phoenixes to deal with the mutas?
yeah.... whatever
growlizing
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway122 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-07 11:27:00
September 07 2011 11:26 GMT
#131
As a zerg, I have to say this seems extremely potent after having encountered this on the ladder.

Any tips for how to deal with this as zerg when you typically respond with a fast 3rd vs FFE?
Gooey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States944 Posts
September 07 2011 12:37 GMT
#132
On September 07 2011 19:41 RRjr wrote:
Doesn't the amount of scouting coming out of this build make it very easy to spot the spire? So why not just build one or two stargates in response and pump Phoenixes to deal with the mutas?

Yes it does, actually. I played around a little bit with it, and you definitely see the spire when it is building. I tried just making blink stalkers to deal with it, since twilight was already going down to start working towards HTs, but throwing down 2 stargates right as I see it could do really well, too. If they cancel it, then whatever other tech they decide to go will be much slower anyways.

I think at that point, after landing some +1 zealots in their base for harass, going 2 star phoenix would let me get a fast 3rd on a map like tal'darim. Zealot/phoenix is already so strong on that map, but this would make it even better. Same for shattered, too. Hmm, time for some more testing. I really like the quick prism, though. Don't need to get an observer until you move out, because cannons provide detection at the front, the only place you need it. Allows for a lot of pressure potential against zerg. PvZ has been so fun lately
www.twitch.tv/Thatgooey
Xahhk
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada540 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-08 22:58:46
September 08 2011 22:35 GMT
#133
Turnus
Profile Joined June 2007
United States86 Posts
September 08 2011 23:07 GMT
#134
+1 zealots are great scouts... and If you win, then the zerg tried to go muta/ling. Thus, scouting...
cui dono lepidum novum libellum
BoondockVeritas
Profile Joined August 2010
United States191 Posts
September 09 2011 06:21 GMT
#135

whitera doing something like this build. if zerg takes a fast third i'd say this is another/better response if you want to just kill him 7-8 gate 2 base warp in attack combines with ramp is awesome when it works.
NA server Veritas.414, KR server Bullet.382. 지지요!
Zhazulo
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Sweden226 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 19:10:07
September 09 2011 19:09 GMT
#136
Just tried out the build, it went really well, better than I thought, I especially liked the four zealot attack, can really catch a zerg of guard, and can snipe a few queens or drones.

Zealot immortal also deals with roaches quite rapidly as well.

One problem I faced though was that I banked a lot of resources. The gas I can understand, because you can dump it into archons/HT, but the minerals could be an issue. A solution I can think of would be just more gateways and cannons at expos.

I like the multitasking part of the strat as well, really helps me improve as a random player

Looking forward to 1.4!

Thanks for the build!
Mythal
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Spain108 Posts
September 10 2011 15:41 GMT
#137
On September 10 2011 04:09 Mr.X546 wrote:
Just tried out the build, it went really well, better than I thought, I especially liked the four zealot attack, can really catch a zerg of guard, and can snipe a few queens or drones.

Zealot immortal also deals with roaches quite rapidly as well.

One problem I faced though was that I banked a lot of resources. The gas I can understand, because you can dump it into archons/HT, but the minerals could be an issue. A solution I can think of would be just more gateways and cannons at expos.

I like the multitasking part of the strat as well, really helps me improve as a random player

Looking forward to 1.4!

Thanks for the build!


I tried yesterday too, an it went reaaaaaly well, thanks to the OP! ^^

I would suggest you to drop unusual amounts of wargates, given that with the warprisms around the zerg base you can apply enourmous located amounts of pression if you use the warp-in mode of the warprism. So this way, for instance, you can warpin 8 zealots in his third just after he is finishing to deal with another warpin you did in another base.
"I wanna read the diary not smoke it!"
FredSuceBats
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada12 Posts
September 11 2011 16:35 GMT
#138
I'm not able to watch your replay, I download them but I just can't watch them. Can you upload your replays on an other website? I'm very interested by your strat and I would like to watch your replay.

Thx
Quebec
Champ24
Profile Joined August 2010
177 Posts
September 12 2011 02:15 GMT
#139
Been using this with great success on ladder recently (low-mid master).

The +1 3 zealot strike is just sick...most Zergs respond to a FFE or nexus first with a super fast greedy 3rd and that strange timing attack rips it apart.

The real fun part is being able to be active with units all game. Way more fun than defensively constructing a deathball to steamroll across the map IMO.

This build got me hooked on chargelots...so much more fun than colossus micro!
Gen_Syntax
Profile Joined September 2011
25 Posts
September 12 2011 02:23 GMT
#140
This is a very good strat I saw response do this against...i think it was mondragon...Super annoying to deal with against zerg just as dealing with terran drops. But atleast vs. Terran you're going to make mutas anyways, but vs. toss going mutas is difficult to pull off...
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