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Anybody incorporating sentries during the initial warp prism harass? It seems to me that if your opponent is sticking on any type of 2-base play it is highly beneficial to immediately follow-up with sentries after your initial 3-5 zealot since:
1) Sentries can protect your main from ALL follow-up aggression
2) Sentries are allowed to build up energy and can be loaded up with the initial warp prism to continually FF the ramp b/w their main and natural (keep 1-2 sentries back at your base and cannon up for the eventual counterattack). Warp Prism harass with just zealots is not very effective vs a 2-base roach play but with sentries you can still do severe damage.
Also to the OP I see you almost always expand during your initial warp prism harass, but I've found that if they don't make roaches and rely on lings/spines for defense, I've found a lot of success just throwing down 6 more gates (8 total) and outright killing them. It appears to be very hard for zerg to defend +1/+1 mass zealots at that timing with just lings and crawlers.
You have to be very sharp with your timings however since if they are going for a ling defense early on and is on only 2 bases that means infestors or mutas and your warp prism will get to their base right around the time infestors or mutas would be popping and you need to hit them before their infestors build up too much energy or they get too many mutas. I find this preferrable than having to worry about a 2-base infestor timing or being forced to turtle up once mutas hit the field.
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With the 1.4 patch why would you even need to be innovative? With infestor nerf it's pretty much a free win for protoss in PvZ right now :'(
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I've been using sentry drop's on any map with a ramp. If you drop some Sentries, close up the ramp and warp in some zealots, you can ABSOULUTELY wreck a base. If your timing is crisp, you can snipe a massive amount of tech and a base worth of drones. It's also fairly low risk anymore, with the Prism shield buff, it's a lot more likely you'll be able to get out of there with all of your sentries and prism barring a major control error.
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On September 28 2011 02:01 EvilZergling wrote:
With the 1.4 patch why would you even need to be innovative? With infestor nerf it's pretty much a free win for protoss in PvZ right now :'(
I agree, with this patch we're seeing zerg win rates plummeting. Some speculate that they are down as low as 50% versus Protoss.
</incontrol >
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Thanks for the build! I love using warp prisms, especially when it's unexpected. My only problems come from mutas but that's my timing issues.
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Saw someone drop 4 sentries into a base, and FF the mineral lines so the drones couldn't run away. Was pretty slick IMO.
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Awesome guide. I just need to stop morphing all my templars into archon and have none left to feedback infestor...
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I must say i have been practising this build and since then my PvZ success rate went through the roof. Zergs are so passive in the early fase of the game, and they think they can get away with maximum drones till the 9 minute mark, but this really puts them on the spot as they have to think what to do.
I'm no where near pro level ( only mid masters ) but this is a build that is NOT for anyone without decent multitasking, since you are constantly teching/upgrading/double harassing, and you need to keep your prisms alive as long as you can to keep the zerg at bay.
Also don't go with fancy units with your harass, i've fallen into the trap of sending in too much DT's to harass, trying to snipe spores, and then kill drones/tech/hatches, but the zealots will be WAY more cost effecient then DT's. Because if you spend too much on DT's your main army will be too small to fend off any huge timing attack from a zerg.
just my 2 cents
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Oh i've been doing something similar but with sentries but this looks way better and way faster and way more adaptable. I will try it and give you my toughts. thxxx <3
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zerg will have overlords around your base and will see incoming wapr prism
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Running this build in diamond, I've found that against a macro zerg that doesn't take much damage from the harassment, this puts you about even with Zerg economically and with a fairly solid mid-game. The early and constant zealot aggression prevents him from getting a drone lead (which used to be such a big downfall of forge fe and pvz in general). I really love it! The prisms also mean tons of constant scouting of his unit composition and bases, without the need for hallucination.
I've had better success against muta rushes lately too. I don't think it's a build order loss or anything that extreme; your initial warp prism gets there about when the mutas pop (at least when I do it; it's possible I'm not doing it the fastest), you lose the prism but it's also possible to snipe the spire if you're lucky. As soon as I spot the mutas I warp in stalkers and make cannons, which all finish in time to prevent any econ damage from the initial mutas. Then it's just blink and high templar, which is tech that's readily available since the council is already built. And if you keep doing prism harass, it keeps the mutas off your back for the cost of 200 minerals, and his lings won't be too effective at defending harassment by zealots.
My one question right now is this: if I scout roach infestor, do I continue to go for charge zealots in combination with immortals and HT/archons? Or do I instead go straight to blink/HT/Immortal? Chargelots are decent against roaches in small numbers, especially with the immortals backing them up, but when they begin massing roaches or with hydras behind it seems like the zealots lose a lot of effectiveness.
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Anybody incorporating sentries during the initial warp prism harass?
JYP LOVES PvZ Prism-Sentry openings, and its pretty damn effective.
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I opened with quick robot warprism while 6 gates or cannon rush to kill Zerg's quick third base. drop in the main and nonstop harass. You don't to commit to much in to it. Just 1-2 zealots at a time to kill drone or buying time. And then get your third. Double robot colossus is the best. And eventually move out and roll them.
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On October 03 2011 04:20 wildstyle1337 wrote:
zerg will have overlords around your base and will see incoming wapr prism
Genius. Absolutely brilliant...
OT: When scouting Roach/infestor, generally I will try to spread the Zerg army as thing as possible if it is still in the mid game (10-16minute range), because as stated, Zealot/HT/Archon/Immortal rips small groups of Roach/Infestor. However I eventually will switch into Blink Stalker/Colossus/Archon to battle the inevitable Brood Lords that are incoming.
Also , sorry for waaay late update on the new replays. I have 4 Patch 1.4 replays posted in the OP, forgive my sloppy play in the game vs ostoji 
Edit: I added an Early Roach pressure replay with notes about my thoughts and decisions. Hopefully it is useful. GL!
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Thanks for the new replays. I've been using this extensively in gold league haha. So far I think I haven't lost a pvz yet.
It really puts a strain on my bad amp though.
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Seems like you are really forcing it in some of those new replays, i.e. when they are on 2 base roach and make a lot of spines at both their bases. Also I'm not a fan of this opener on XNC for basically the reason you show, it sucks for the roachling all-in that is so popular there. It's nice that you came back and won but... that's because you outplayed your opponent and not because of the build.
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On October 07 2011 14:46 Skyro wrote:
Seems like you are really forcing it in some of those new replays, i.e. when they are on 2 base roach and make a lot of spines at both their bases. Also I'm not a fan of this opener on XNC for basically the reason you show, it sucks for the roachling all-in that is so popular there. It's nice that you came back and won but... that's because you outplayed your opponent and not because of the build.
To each his own on which maps you favor to use this opener , but I do agree that roachling all-ins are very popular on XNC. I am a bit confused though on what you mean by the last part of where I won because I outplayed my opponent and not because of the build. In no way do I intend for this build to be a BO win, but in some cases it just is simply that. Generally I like to think that most people win the majority of their games based on the fact that they played better than their opponent.
I'll be adding some more replays and hopefully they are a bit better, but as far as the build seeming forced, well it is. I join games with a mindset based on the map/player of what I want to do, and then carry that out with slight variations depending on scouting. The Warp Prism play continues no matter what, but I do not commit as much with it depending on the defenses. Warp Prism's in a certain sense contain the Zerg; they can't move out knowing you have a flying Pylon in their base ready to warp in units, and from this is where you gain your lead.
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This also doesn't work if they decide to one base for a while and baneling bust.
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On September 28 2011 02:01 EvilZergling wrote:
With the 1.4 patch why would you even need to be innovative? With infestor nerf it's pretty much a free win for protoss in PvZ right now :'(
Lol. Sarcasm? Whine? Drama for drama's sake? I find PvZ to be consistently fun and challenging with this strategy. Post-patch, I've seen a lot more muta and roach-hydra play so I'd say Zerg as adapting just fine.
As others have suggested, I, too, struggle with taking a third against muta--not 2-base muta so much as a Z who makes muta as he's taking a 3rd. I'll try pressuring their 3rd without overcommitting as Noumena suggested.
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On October 08 2011 07:44 Noumena wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 14:46 Skyro wrote:
Seems like you are really forcing it in some of those new replays, i.e. when they are on 2 base roach and make a lot of spines at both their bases. Also I'm not a fan of this opener on XNC for basically the reason you show, it sucks for the roachling all-in that is so popular there. It's nice that you came back and won but... that's because you outplayed your opponent and not because of the build. To each his own on which maps you favor to use this opener , but I do agree that roachling all-ins are very popular on XNC. I am a bit confused though on what you mean by the last part of where I won because I outplayed my opponent and not because of the build. In no way do I intend for this build to be a BO win, but in some cases it just is simply that. Generally I like to think that most people win the majority of their games based on the fact that they played better than their opponent. I'll be adding some more replays and hopefully they are a bit better, but as far as the build seeming forced, well it is. I join games with a mindset based on the map/player of what I want to do, and then carry that out with slight variations depending on scouting. The Warp Prism play continues no matter what, but I do not commit as much with it depending on the defenses. Warp Prism's in a certain sense contain the Zerg; they can't move out knowing you have a flying Pylon in their base ready to warp in units, and from this is where you gain your lead.
I just mean you seem to force this build/strat to your detriment. The XNC is just an example where you take a lot of damage from the roach/ling all-in but you are able to come back because you outplayed him later on. XNC is a map where it is difficult to FFE and roachling all-in is popular which is pretty much a direct counter to this opener. The zealot opener IMO is most effective on maps where you can FFE very safely and your opponent is greedy and/or is relying only on lings for early defense.
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EPT
