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:o just watched one of the games on shattered, was incredible
Whenever I got lazy watching that replay I would miss a bunch of zealots slicing shit up, I actually had to rewind a few times because I wondered when the zerg lost his natural, so I hate to think how your opponents would have felt :p
Just one complaint though, I assume because you were playing with people you knew that you got a bit greedy... I.e 15 nexus on shattered temple despite not scouting, you would have insta lost against an early pool. Apart from that awesome game, gonna watch a few more.
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After laddering with this opening a bunch I think the 2 things you have to watch out for that you didn't cover in the early to mid-game is baneling busts and quick tech switch to hydras in the mid-game.
2-base baneling busts will hit you right around when your zealots are trucking it over, so if you see way more lings in the early game than normal it's 99% chance he's going for a baneling bust. I usually throw down 2-3 more cannons and chrono out 1-2 sentries ASAP.
The hydra tech switch caught me off-guard a couple of times. The hydra den and hydras themselves pop out pretty fast and a lot of zergs I'm facing are doing this when they see the heavy immortal mid-game, so be sure to tech switch over to HT fairly quickly after you throw down your twilight council.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 12 2011 14:52 Skyro wrote:
After laddering with this opening a bunch I think the 2 things you have to watch out for that you didn't cover in the early to mid-game is baneling busts and quick tech switch to hydras in the mid-game.
2-base baneling busts will hit you right around when your zealots are trucking it over, so if you see way more lings in the early game than normal it's 99% chance he's going for a baneling bust. I usually throw down 2-3 more cannons and chrono out 1-2 sentries ASAP.
The hydra tech switch caught me off-guard a couple of times. The hydra den and hydras themselves pop out pretty fast and a lot of zergs I'm facing are doing this when they see the heavy immortal mid-game, so be sure to tech switch over to HT fairly quickly after you throw down your twilight council.
I agree with the baneling bust being something you have to watch out for, and I have been encountering it a couple of times... along with a lot of other varied all-ins such as 9pool pull all drones.....
However for the Hydras, I don't necessarily think you should just be going heavy-immortal for your mid-game, unless you see Roaches. By this time you should have your TC up and be researching chargelots with +2 wep +1 armor (assuming you're upgrading properly), will destroy Hydralisks.
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On September 12 2011 15:18 Noumena wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 12 2011 14:52 Skyro wrote:
After laddering with this opening a bunch I think the 2 things you have to watch out for that you didn't cover in the early to mid-game is baneling busts and quick tech switch to hydras in the mid-game.
2-base baneling busts will hit you right around when your zealots are trucking it over, so if you see way more lings in the early game than normal it's 99% chance he's going for a baneling bust. I usually throw down 2-3 more cannons and chrono out 1-2 sentries ASAP.
The hydra tech switch caught me off-guard a couple of times. The hydra den and hydras themselves pop out pretty fast and a lot of zergs I'm facing are doing this when they see the heavy immortal mid-game, so be sure to tech switch over to HT fairly quickly after you throw down your twilight council. I agree with the baneling bust being something you have to watch out for, and I have been encountering it a couple of times... along with a lot of other varied all-ins such as 9pool pull all drones..... However for the Hydras, I don't necessarily think you should just be going heavy-immortal for your mid-game, unless you see Roaches. By this time you should have your TC up and be researching chargelots with +2 wep +1 armor (assuming you're upgrading properly), will destroy Hydralisks.
I meant when they open roaches so I react by pumping immortals, and then zerg reacts to the heavy immortal composition with a quick-tech switch to hydras. Roach/hydra will melts zealot/immortal. That's why I said I usually go right into templar tech ASAP after I research charge, because the zerg player can switch tech and pump out a lot of hydras a lot quicker than you can react with storm, which is why I was caught off guard a couple of times.
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I agree with the baneling busts being the major thing to watch out for when doing this build. If anyone has replays of them vs banelings I wouldn't mind seeing them.
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Noumena you are seriously awesome... I am also a high master P playing at GM level and I can already tell this build is sick. I can't wait to try it tomorrow!
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Updated the main post with a way to hold a Baneling bust. The way I knew it was coming was the excessive amount of lings that greeted my initial zealots, which is why I got the Observer to scout what he was doing before my Warp Prism. I am not sure if this Zerg just did it poorly and thats why I held or what, but anyways here is the replay if you don't want to search the OP:
http://www.mediafire.com/?l2c7zo94zc0o6yr
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I'm so thankful for this build, Noumena. PvZ has become fun again!
Here's a replay of me beating one of Norways best players with it:
http://tinyurl.com/5vvxpq5
Also, anyone got a good replay of this build versus 2base muta?
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-Do you still find you have time to get a third up before 2-base mutas hit, or do you just turtle up on 2-base and push out when you have a big enough army? It feels very uncomfortable attempting to grab your 3rd with mutas out, even if you know you dealt a good bit of damage with your harass. Sniping the spire seems more like "do it if you have the chance" rather than a solid strategy you can employ everytime you go up against mutas.
-Vs 2-base Roach do you still continue Warp Prism harass? You don't trade effectively with Roaches with just Zealots, though I imagine that abusing the ramp with Sentries is a definite possibility.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 21 2011 03:23 Skyro wrote:
-Do you still find you have time to get a third up before 2-base mutas hit, or do you just turtle up on 2-base and push out when you have a big enough army? It feels very uncomfortable attempting to grab your 3rd with mutas out, even if you know you dealt a good bit of damage with your harass. Sniping the spire seems more like "do it if you have the chance" rather than a solid strategy you can employ everytime you go up against mutas.
-Vs 2-base Roach do you still continue Warp Prism harass? You don't trade effectively with Roaches with just Zealots, though I imagine that abusing the ramp with Sentries is a definite possibility.
Two Base Muta: I wouldn't say I necessarily turtle up, but I put "safe" pressure onto the Zerg. When I say safe, I never really put myself into a position where I must commit to the attack and have my army in danger of dying or losing significantly. Since you should be using Cannons to defend Mutalisk harassment, your army will be somewhat safe to move out to Zerg's base to snipe any 3rd, or stray overlords. This also helps the Mutas stay close to the main and lessens the harassment. Once I feel like I have done enough damage to defend a 3rd, while pressuring, I will take my 3rd.
2 Base Roach: I continue my Warp Prism harass once Charge kicks in, but I lessen the amount of Zealots I will be warping in via my Prisms. The idea behind this is to keep sufficient damage and the Zerg creating units/having to spend time in his base and gives the Protoss the opportunity to mass up an Immortal force/tech to Archons or whatever you may desire.
Peronsally, vs 2 base Roach play I like to get an observer out and keep it moving around the Zerg's base, look for when he decides he is going to move out, and then move my Warp Prism(s) back in to continue pressure, to yo-yo his army around.
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How does 1.4 affect your play with this strategy and Zerg counters?
I have personally taken a few days off from playing because I am a) busy, and b) waiting to see how top-level zergs handle top-level sentry drops with the +60hp to prisms.
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would love some new replays, especially with the new patch 
still my favorite article.
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still using this and still loving it. having pretty good success with it at mid diamond level. gonna start trying to incorporate sentry drops into my strat. pressure the front, FF ramp and try and snipe tech rather than drones
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I have been fairly busy lately, which means no time to play =/ I will try to upload more replays tonight for 1.4, hopefully. The new patch will only help this strategy essentially. +60 Shields to the Warp Prism, and +1 Range to Immortals (for when there are roaches). Only issue I can think of is the slower Blink research, which seems pretty miniscule to work around. Simply spread your stalkers out better and wait to move out until Blink is finished.
Glad to see everyone still loves the strat and it is working out for them.
Edit: Slight delay on the 1.4 Replays, forgot I am getting my wisdom teeth pulled tonight.
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i have been trying similar stuff to this except doing 1 gate forge expo into stargate, then pushing around with void rays to harass 3rd while i make gates and a prism.
i'll have to try zealot pressure instead of void, will let me get prism and forge/twilight upgrades out much faster! solid write up.
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the increased usage of warp prisms only adds to the complexity and skill level and understanding of PvZ matchup.
however people should not treat this as an end-all-be-all. its not a 'solution' its an additional aspect of play just like medivac drops in TvZ.
very patient zergs will be able to overcome this, but most will eventually crumble. zergs like darkforce and sheth are the ones who know how to combat this. they are also one of a kind.
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very patient zergs will be able to overcome this, but most will eventually crumble. zergs like darkforce and sheth are the ones who know how to combat this. they are also one of a kind.
If they are "one of a kind" how are there two of them?
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Thanks so much for this build! Been working wonders for me in diamond against the excess of Zergs on ladder. The only things I'm having trouble with are muta openers and baneling busts, but it's definitely not an insta-loss or anything. The scouting zealot spots any baneling attack, and if I chronoboost sentries and add cannons I think I can survive. The mutas pop out right about as my warp prism reaches his base if he's doing a 2-base muta rush, but one warp in of stalkers should fend off the initial 8-10 mutas. I'd be interested in a faster way to scout the spire, as my preferred method of countering mutas is phoenixes instead of blink stalkers. Sometimes if I rally the very first zealot to their main I can see if they're making a fast lair or not, but it depends on how many zerglings they make.
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I do a modified version of the build where I mine with 2 gases at the start (quicker +1), and get a 3rd and 4th gas after Robo and Citadel and then get a DT shrine.
I then use my army, the Warp Prism + DTs to constantly harass, whilst at the same time, building up my Collosus count (or Stalkers if he goes air) and expanding. It's basically a free win when Zerg move their army half way across the map and you warp in 4 DTs into their main and there is nothing there to defend it.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:57 Conselyte wrote:Show nested quote +very patient zergs will be able to overcome this, but most will eventually crumble. zergs like darkforce and sheth are the ones who know how to combat this. they are also one of a kind. If they are "one of a kind" how are there two of them?
Had to giggle ^_^
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EPT
