EPT[G] PvZ -- Ultimate Solution: Warp Prisms - Page 2
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xomel
United States14 Posts
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xomel
United States14 Posts
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Meff
Italy287 Posts
On August 28 2011 07:25 Noumena wrote:With the early pressure, you should be able to scout a Spire, and then can react correctly. Just like with any other build, scouting is key. How do you scout a spire with a 7 minute zealot poke? In particular, how do you tell apart a spire and an infestation pit? To me, it looks like the first reliable opportunity that you have to scout said spire is with the prism push - which seems quite late. | ||
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Noumena
United States85 Posts
On August 28 2011 09:47 Meff wrote: How do you scout a spire with a 7 minute zealot poke? In particular, how do you tell apart a spire and an infestation pit? To me, it looks like the first reliable opportunity that you have to scout said spire is with the prism push - which seems quite late. Generally the Zealots won't die right off, meaning somewhere during the attack the Zerg will create the Spire, or already have it being made assuming he is rushing Mutalisks. If the Spire is made at the 7:00 mark, it takes ~100 seconds to build. 8:20 is the soonest you will be able to PRODUCE Mutalisks, meaning they will not get out until 8:53 (33 second production time). This is considering he has pooled a great deal of resources to make enough Mutalisks to completely shut down the Warp Prism, and do sufficient damage before you can react. If the timings are hit correctly, the Warp Prism should arrive at about ~8:30 with your Twilight Council finishing shortly after. Warp Gate research also finishes roughly at this time. You drop Zealots, do as much damage as possible, and if you do see a Spire, you are able to snipe it assuming he is unprepared. At this time, you begin to research Blink, warp in Cannons at your mineral lines (1 at each), and mass produce Stalkers. Blink Stalkers DESTROY Mutalisks, especially with the +1 Armor upgrade you will/should have gotten. Continue to get a third, and tech into Templar. Continue Warp Prism harass to keep the Mutalisks at the Zerg base. | ||
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xomel
United States14 Posts
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sas911
Canada113 Posts
On August 28 2011 08:53 Nyast wrote: I'm not discrediting the build, I haven't played it enough to claim that. I just noticed that in my latest game, which had the same beginning, the timings would have been bad even if I followed your build. Then yeah, I probably didn't execute it correctly ? When I sent my 5 zealots I met a lot of lings in the middle of the map. By the time I killed them all, all I had was 2 zealots in red. Should I have continued the pressure ? I don't think so, here I retreated and continued on stargates, that's where things diverged. If you've killed a crap load of lings then you've done a GREAT job. Just because you werent able to kill drones, you were ABLE to force large numbers of lings. Not to mention that this is pressure of a FE build. It should put you ahead in macro, drone kills or not. | ||
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shizam
12 Posts
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Noumena
United States85 Posts
On August 28 2011 10:13 xomel wrote: also, what most people dont realize is that with spending all these minerals youre going to pool a bunch of gas and be able to easily throw up that templar archives and with a couple archons in your base you can almost completely shut down muta harassment while warping in chargelots to harass This pretty much says it all. You are spending minerals on Warp Prisms/Zealots, but not gas. Archons with +2 Weapons and +1 Armor will absolutely rip apart Hydras/Roaches. If you see he has a couple Roaches to clean up your Zealots, start making Immortals while you continue to harass. I'll upload a couple of replays and edit this post once I have them. + Show Spoiler + http://www.mediafire.com/?3lsj2k2mju1upcq | ||
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shizam
12 Posts
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Keilah
731 Posts
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
On August 28 2011 21:32 Keilah wrote: My sc2 knowledge has gaps but shouldn't z be able to deflect your 4 zlots with queen(s) spine(s) and very few lings? He wont die to first 4, the reason to do the push is to prevent him from taking fast third and droning up fast. | ||
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Noumena
United States85 Posts
On August 29 2011 00:26 zezamer wrote: He wont die to first 4, the reason to do the push is to prevent him from taking fast third and droning up fast. Pretty much. This push isn't meant to straight kill the Zerg, but instead its purpose is to deny a third, make him produce lings early on, and possibly make spine crawlers. If he has "very few lings," then you should just be able to walk up his ramp and bypass the spine(s). | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
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Porneus
Poland68 Posts
 thanks a lot for that PvZ style/build. Only thing that is causing me to lose is rush to mass muta. What about incorporating some low gas 5-6 gate into this? Yeh it will delay my tech but when zerg rushes to mutas prism becomes useless, also spines in front shut down any direct harass(by walking). On maps like taldarim if zerg defends well game will last past 3 base econ and I really can't take 4th cause he'll base race me ;\ Can't see solution to this, any hints masta? :D Again really pleased with this build ;P | ||
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XelNaga89
Serbia2 Posts
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Noumena
United States85 Posts
 The beauty of this build is, with the FFE and Zealot Pressure with +1 early on, it gives you a lot of versatility along with early pressure. The timings of everything also lines up very nicely imho, where as your Warp Prism should be popping out the time Warp Gates finish, or around that time. This means that if your Warp Prism is denied by Mutas, you already have your Twilight Council, and 4 Warp Gates on a clean cycle ready to make 4 Stalkers. You pretty much win from here because Mutas can't do much vs Blink Stalkers. On maps like Taldarim , you should be able to hit multi pronged attacks (hint: Multiple Warp Prisms) and do great damage to the Zerg. Warp in 4 Zealots for each Prism, send them in, unload, and mix up the Warp cycles. If you don't have to worry about Mutas, you should be getting Charge and will be able to pretty much destroy any small force he has defending. If he does have Mutas, then just ball up a huge group of Stalkers , and +1 Armor blink stalkers will destroy any Mutalisk force. Hopefully Blizzard continues with the 1.4 Warp Prism buff | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
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DrKillface
Australia106 Posts
Anyway, thanks a lot, I have some replays I can upload of this working at a lower level with 80 apm if anyone is interested? edit: noumena is an amazing band too, I hope thats what your name is in reference to. | ||
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xomel
United States14 Posts
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Yakob
United States15 Posts
To be honest, depending on the map i could see this strategy being fairly useful against zerg if its the first couple times they face it. i would recommend throwing a stalker in early to hunt down the scouting overlord/drone that would be allowed to see everything thats going on. i suggest stalker because they have a high DPS then sentry, more mobile and cheaper then cannons around your bases, and they are relatively low on gas. if you dont then the zerg player could pretty much see everything that is going on in your base. personally, if i see a FFE i throw down several spine crawlers in my base (I am terrified of cannon rushes). if i didnt scout any probe or pylon in my main or my natural and i saw a second gateway go down instead of a core, the natural response i guess would be to move the spines to the front of my base, throw down a baneling nest, and other then a few lings pump drones hard because in my experience the reason most protoss FFE is to get the extra gas, not the minerals, and if a second gateway goes down before the core then something seems really off (which considering im in silver league wouldnt be a big surprise) of course, this is my strategy after reading this thread and having a few minutes in real life to mull it over. in game, I would probably die. . | ||
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