EPTThank you very much, Noumena.
[G] PvZ -- Ultimate Solution: Warp Prisms - Page 4
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Dtkaze
2 Posts
Thank you very much, Noumena. | ||
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JesMaz
United States16 Posts
I feel that if this becomes popular, Zergs may have no choice but to stop delaying their Lairs in ZvP. One of my favorite things about Warp Prism play is that you get very easy influence on Xel Naga Towers. I also recommend bringing a probe with your warp prism to build pylons in hard-to-reach locations for vision and enhanced harassment opportunities. | ||
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TheKillers
United States17 Posts
On August 27 2011 20:11 userstupidname wrote: FINALLY protoss take this to heart from a zerg I have rambled on this forum on protoss to use the damn warpprism Hopefully protoss idiocy will end when people from your own group propagates for it >.< Excellent post User was banned for this post. what the hell why was this guy banned. i totally vouch for him. this strategy is amazing, its one of the things that always crushes me when i play vs toss. zvp is my best MU, but this is one of the things that always kills me. zealots just kill tech SOO fast. another thing that i didnt see in the post was, when you drop, if you drop a sentry with the drop, you can FF the ramp. EZ extra time. :D | ||
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Fairwell
Austria195 Posts
Do you use chargelot-immo-archon(ht for feedback) mix to counter roach (roach-infestor) in your games? With the style you have shown in this thread it never really got so far. :-) I'm really interested, since the normal stalker-sentry-immo unit mix hasn't been working out too well for me lately once they switch over to some infestors and if you can't take your 3rd quickly hts consume too much gas for that usually. In the style your provided trying to go for this unit comp after not having early gases/sentries to build up energy it wouldn't make too much sense anyways, so i'm referring here also to other styles/games you play vs zerg. | ||
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Noumena
United States85 Posts
I considered that, but I feel like it would just require too much extra APM that you will already be needing to control 2/3 Warp Prisms, macro, take new bases, upgrade, chrono, etc. Not a bad idea, but just a bit too fancy  Fairwell, Yes, I love using charge lots, immortals, and archons sided with HT if there are A LOT of Infestors. One danger though is the clumping of Zealots, try to use small forces vs Infestors/Roaches because they can just chain fungal your units, Neural the archons/immortals, and wipe your big ball. Luckily, archons/immortal/zealots are amazing in small numbers, and infestors need to ball together to be able to chain fungal effectively. | ||
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Tiwilager
4 Posts
Any suggestions? | ||
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Thugtronik
New Zealand452 Posts
i had one game though where i lost and wasn't entirely sure what to do. it was on antiga shipyard, Z got a quick third after seeing my FFE. i got quite a few drone kills and a queen kill with my initial pressure and eventually had a couple of prisms flying around dropping zealots while trying to pressure the front a bit. the zerg just spammed spines and spores at all three bases and with bunch of roaches roaming around was just shutting down my harass way too easily and i was donating zealots for very little damage in return. i tried to pump out some immortals but he eventually just overran me with mass roaches and a few hydra due to his superior econ. i got a third base up but it was a bit delayed (partly to me blocking the expo with a pylon... facepalm). my templar tech was also delayed due to my poor macro whilst harassing. i'm just not sure what to do in a situation like this where he easily shuts down my harass and just gets way ahead in supply. will upload a replay when i'm home from work. | ||
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Noumena
United States85 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On August 30 2011 09:05 Thugtronik wrote: awesome guide - big fan of this style. have only got a couple of games in using it so far though with mixed success. i find that my ~100apm isn't quite enough for me to effectively do multi-pronged prism harass whilst macroing but i'm sure i'll improve. i had one game though where i lost and wasn't entirely sure what to do. it was on antiga shipyard, Z got a quick third after seeing my FFE. i got quite a few drone kills and a queen kill with my initial pressure and eventually had a couple of prisms flying around dropping zealots while trying to pressure the front a bit. the zerg just spammed spines and spores at all three bases and with bunch of roaches roaming around was just shutting down my harass way too easily and i was donating zealots for very little damage in return. i tried to pump out some immortals but he eventually just overran me with mass roaches and a few hydra due to his superior econ. i got a third base up but it was a bit delayed (partly to me blocking the expo with a pylon... facepalm). my templar tech was also delayed due to my poor macro whilst harassing. i'm just not sure what to do in a situation like this where he easily shuts down my harass and just gets way ahead in supply. will upload a replay when i'm home from work. If the Zerg has "spammed Spines and Spores," then you are ahead without having to do any real damage. If you can do a poke here or there, then you're fine. The very moment you see a single Roach, make Immortals. Chronoboost Immortals out and make as many as you can. Once you have 3-4 with a solid number of Zealots and +2 Weapons, I would do a push out with Prisms, your Charge should be done at about this time and you will destroy him. This build honestly is all about the multi-tasking, and once you have that down, you will be practically unstoppable. You will ALWAYS cause damage and he effective with the Warp Prisms. Intelligence/scouting information in a RTS such as SC2, or any other game, is worth more than some minerals. | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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Tiwilager
4 Posts
http://starcraft2reps.com/index.php?a=details&id=3124 Was with a friend, hence the small amount of banter at the end. Also, I think my wall off could have been better, but I can't really see that helping. Edit: Direct Download link: http://starcraft2reps.com/download.php?id=3124 But I think the site may be broken or something. Edit 2: Uploaded it again here: http://replayfu.com/r/2k4Vqm | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
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Fairwell
Austria195 Posts
On August 30 2011 08:58 Noumena wrote: Yes, I love using charge lots, immortals, and archons sided with HT if there are A LOT of Infestors. One danger though is the clumping of Zealots, try to use small forces vs Infestors/Roaches because they can just chain fungal your units, Neural the archons/immortals, and wipe your big ball. Luckily, archons/immortal/zealots are amazing in small numbers, and infestors need to ball together to be able to chain fungal effectively. Just to make sure I understand that correctly, by doing multipronged attacks/warping in units etc you keep unit numbers small and there these units are very cost efficient (that is chargelots/immo/archon). You don't try to engage his army directly until you have secured a lead. I've tried a couple more matches and did exactly this, which worked out quite well for me (I play on a lower level though as you, my opponents are like mid master). When playing the same style several times against the same opponent they try to adapt, getting roaches earlier, planting spines in mineral lines etc (the harassment still works though). If it happens that you both end up being somewhat equal on bases/income/army size and he managed to get a middlish-sized roach ball with some infestors together, do you switch your unit composition to something oldschool or just keep going and try to spread out your zealots better vs fg (they often don't have enough energy to fg all zealots + np other units then ...)? I've encountered the very same problem twice where the army ball got bigger and chainfungals on zealots + np on archon/immo killed my army. Thanks for all the input so far, you are more or less revolutionizing my pvz right now. :-) | ||
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Noumena
United States85 Posts
No. Have you watched any of the replays.. or read any of the discussion? =/ @ZeromuS Yes, of course you won't stick on one army composition just like with any other strategy. If you must tech switch, then by all means do it. I could add this to the OP, but I figured it was a given. @Fairwell Precisely. Basically like what I told ZeromuS, you can tech switch if you feel it would be a wise move. The problem is that any staple Protoss army composition has a fairly cheap unit that clumps up, (stalkers and zealots), with power units that will be NP, (colossus/archons/immortals) and all require sufficient spreading and focus firing down of the Infestor. What I mainly meant was that Infestors require clumping and a grouping. 2-3 Infestors can chain fungal, but that is assuming they're full energy, which is highly unlikely if you are harassing correctly. In the late game where you have a big enough army that needs to be spread, you can be doing various split attacks to do as much damage as possible. Generally I like to send my main army to attack their 3rd or 4th, while I use a Warp Prism(s) at their expo or main base, warping in zealots and Archons. | ||
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Avan
Brazil121 Posts
I tried this build a few many times yesterday. And. It worked like a charm. HOLY TASSADAR, MAN! My PvZ was my worst matchup, now I think PvZ is my VERY BEST matchup. Took me some time to refine it (I'm still refining it, actually), but even in a 'rough state' it worked sooooo, so well! Lots of rage quits of zergs saying they 'love how easy protoss is!' and that 'warp prism is OP!'. I believe we're gonna see a lot of QQ threads saying that Zealots and Warp Prisms are OP. After that Immortal-WarpPrism buff, I think this build is gonna be so broken... Luv you, Noumena! You've saved my game! <3 | ||
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andas
Norway11 Posts
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Bourne
United Kingdom152 Posts
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Champ24
177 Posts
My timings and execution are piss poor at the moment, but I can see myself using this regularly when I get the hang of it. Hard to learn a completely new way of playing pvz when I have relied on sentries forever! | ||
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czaku
Poland429 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
You may scout the spire with earlier harass but I've seen quite a few Zergs lately hiding their spire in some obscure locations with the overlord spew creep ability. | ||
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
On August 27 2011 18:25 skatbone wrote: Given that you don't like sentries and collosus, I'm wondering how you respond to a 2-base hydra attack on your wall, or a hydra-ling-nydus into your main. I ask this not to discount your build, but out of genuine curiosity. I've encountered this a number of times at my lowly diamond level when I FFE. Get one warp prism while building a robo bay? And how about versus fast spire builds? Again, I'm not discounting, just wondering how you handle the other options options (besides roach warren, lots of lings, and fast third) that a zerg has. I have tried warp prism play before, but never with multiple prism. Great idea. Hmmmm, I haven't really used colossus in PvZ / PvT since I hate them so much (and sentries to an extent). You find ways to deal with hydra aggression as protoss. Blink Stalker & armor upgrades w/ sentry works well until HT are out (with immortals to deal with roaches). The key is to not be surprised by the hydras when they walk up in to your base, which hallucination provides. Blink stalkers are pretty much a swiss army knife against zerg until infestors come out, and its just a small leap to HT from them, so there really isn't a scenario where opening blink stalkers is bad. Also, chargelot flanks really put the hurt on hydras. Anytime you're trading minerals for minerals and gas is good, just save the merchandise when things start to get dicey (sentries, HT, stalkers especially). Too many protoss players are losing stalkers willy-nilly and I can attribute most of my losses to this happening. I'm around 600 points in masters (~100 games played). | ||
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