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On August 21 2011 13:47 SpoR wrote:
12 minutes in? I'll always have roach burrow move and burrow. Also, if you are attacking that late with stalker only I'd probably have a ton of hydras
Hydras will be ruined. Additionally, the joy of this build is that you engage their army through a choke(free advantage) and if something goes wrong you just blink away. Roaches burrow moving up a ramp with concave stalkers dont do too well, espiecially after the toss escapes with everything after the free hits.
Additionally, considering you are on the templar tech path, storm drops are the next step. New harass oriented PvZ build inc.
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Sounds promising. I will try this next time i random as Protoss
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Great use of sentry+warp prism- I'm always surprised more people aren't doing this.
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This seem like something that will help my PvZ grow a lot, i'm sucking in the matchup. I have a question though, why not take 4 sentries in the warp prism for more forcefields just in case and so when you finish your attack you can load them up again and sentry drop his natural or third later as your stalkers blink back out?
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I heard infestors were pretty good. Personally scouting robo and gateways I get a lot lot lot spines... Then rush for infestors. takes what 3 fungals to kill a warprism and your entire strategy is dead...
I dunno but I think protoss need to practice less and less all-ins and more and more well scouted "macro/lategame" orientated plays.
You can't count on the zerg not scouting the warprism and the blink, thus allowing units in the main and the spines at the front :|
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On August 21 2011 13:14 Staboteur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 12:59 brachester wrote:
though the pictures may make your thread looks detailed but your analysis of your strat are horrible. You didn't discuss any type of timing you're trying to exploit, you didn't discuss anything about what the zerg could have done to prevent that (your losses), because i'm pretty sure it's not imbalanced, if it is, the ladder and tournaments would have fulled of it already. All you did was showing people that you need to build stalkers, build sentries and build warprism to execute this build -_- ...because it's a tactic, not a build. Much like ling runbys aren't meant to exploit a significant timing (other than "his units aren't here right now") or how marine drops don't need to happen only before Protoss gets a specific tech... it's a clever way to use the units you'll likely already have plus a warp prism to straight-up win games.
This thread is a [G] -_-
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This is certainly occasionally useful, but is by no means a surefire win, let alone imbalanced.
Burrowed roaches, baneling carpet-bombs, and base trades will all kill you. Plus, fungal growth can stop you pretty easily too. Keep in mind that if he just counters you with a ton of speedlings, you'll lose your base faster than he will. He may very well have the drop upgrade or the ability to nydus as well...
You're also banking on a small choke (like on Metalopolis) to preserve sentry energy and corral the Zerg units. If your warp prism gets sniped, then you can't make any more sentries (and you'll quickly run out of sentry energy).
Just food for thought. As a Protoss player, I love using forcefields and blink stalkers, but they're hardly a perfect combination. Good luck!
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PvZ is bar far my worst match up. I struggle mightily with Zerg once they get rolling, so when I saw your strat I immediately jumped onto bnet and gave it a shot against a top 10 (in his division) diamond Zerg, and it worked so well he rage quit with "well... that's dumb." :D
Thanks for the strategy. I'm finding this one much more reliable that hister's recent post on 2 pylon pressure (also a cool strat but much harder to pull off IMO).
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way to read the thread...that is a 1base 4gate allin with a warp prism and sentries
this however is a 2base blink stalker timing with a similar purpose...
the greatest strength of this tactic though is to snipe tech, and if he tries to counter, you've done your damage blink out and then blink around his army to get back or simply harass his army...i would suggest getting 1-2 obs as this timing is not the quickest, as well as adding a probe inside the warp prism to build a pylon in the zergs base incase the prism gets sniped
why do i feel another protoss nerf incoming with this glorious strategy :/
something about protoss winning games seems to be a problem with blizzard...wont take too many more patches to fix that though T.T
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As a general summary: 7 gate +2attack blink stalkers is already very potent. I defeated Liquidshet, Mymxlord, aAabigs with it on ladder, just to give you an idea. Adding a warp prism+ sentry is just putting the icing on the cake: its ridiculously good for harass, or outright killing the zerg.
A lot of people are going like: o this will easily kill it. NO MAN! Zerg already have trouble defeating 7 gate +2 blink. I am not afraid to take up a straight up fight with my stalkers.
On August 21 2011 12:59 brachester wrote:
though the pictures may make your thread looks detailed but your analysis of your strat are horrible. You didn't discuss any type of timing you're trying to exploit, you didn't discuss anything about what the zerg could have done to prevent that (your losses)
It is a guide [G] about a tactic, not about some specific build order. I discuss the possible zerg respones in my conclusion.
Because i'm pretty sure it's not imbalanced, if it is, the ladder and tournaments would have fulled of it already.
Oh, It will be full of it after this thread.
12 minutes in? I'll always have roach burrow move and burrow. Also, if you are attacking that late with stalker only I'd probably have a ton of hydras
Just add me.
I feel that this is just asking for a base trade however idk if that is good or bad.
Yeah basetrade could be annoying. But you could cannon your main, sack your natural and warp in a sentry at home. Because you have blinkstalkers and a warp prism, I think protoss is slightly favored in a basetrade if he reacts well. I think taking one probe in the prism is a very good idea. You can build proxy pylons with it, and it will be useful in a basetrade scenario.
spore crawler near ramp. Done, warpprisms dont have that much hp...
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&id=227476
This is a game vs MYMxlord. I lose my initial sentry and miss ff the ramp because of my clumpiness  . He places later on a spore crawler at his ramp, as you suggest. I still feel, this isn't optimal: it is easy to circumvent one spore crawler. Btw, I still win this game with the raw strength of blinkstalkers.
btw: spoon.170 eu server if you think have a 'counter' or want to train vs this.
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I have recently refined a build for pvt with sentry drops hitting at about the 6:45 minute mark
all it is is a 2 gate robo expand where you get your second gas with you're cyber core, 1 staker first then 4 sentrys and a warp prism, only using chrono on your probes. i have not tryed it out in any games, but getting both a warp prism and 4 sentrys at the 6:25 minute mark i think is pretty dam good, thats hitting even before a 4 gate! anybody who reads this tell me if you like it. 
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yea the tactics of protoss arsenal are pretty mean.
nothing feels worse than loosing to a tactic executed by a player with less skill than ur own. i feel sorry for xlord and co.
arent u ashamed that u beat these players due to the capabilites of ur race and not due to superior micro AND macro?
how do you feel executing these tactic? are u excited about it? what kind of person are you to make this your standard tactic versus zerg?
i mean sure there are at least 5 percent of the zergs standard 6pooling against toss because of such tactics. the rest is doing it just sometimes if they get annoyed by toss abusers. but protoss players always seem to love abusive and/or lame strategys.
i watched ur replays - i can´t see anything that 'counters' this game design failure.
also i think that the execution cant be done much better, even if huk would have tried this. thats the sad thing about toss - the actual control u need evens out the higher the level of skill gets. that means: i think huk and this spooner guy here or even white-ra have a skill difference of maybe 3percent. therefore the skill difference between sen and xlord is much more than 20percent.
sorry for gramar and or vocabular. im not a native speaker.
dont feel insulted toss players out there. it is just what i think and this post made me very very mad.
User was warned for this post
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On August 21 2011 16:41 sontyp wrote:
yea the tactics of protoss arsenal are pretty mean.
nothing feels worse than loosing to a tactic executed by a player with less skill than ur own. i feel sorry for xlord and co.
arent u ashamed that u beat these players due to the capabilites of ur race and not due to superior micro AND macro?
how do you feel executing these tactic? are u excited about it? what kind of person are you to make this your standard tactic versus zerg?
i mean sure there are at least 5 percent of the zergs standard 6pooling against toss because of such tactics. the rest is doing it just sometimes if they get annoyed by toss abusers. but protoss players always seem to love abusive and/or lame strategys.
i watched ur replays - i can´t see anything that 'counters' this game design failure.
also i think that the execution cant be done much better, even if huk would have tried this. thats the sad thing about toss - the actual control u need evens out the higher the level of skill gets. that means: i think huk and this spooner guy here or even white-ra have a skill difference of maybe 3percent. therefore the skill difference between sen and xlord is much more than 20percent.
sorry for gramar and or vocabular. im not a native speaker.
dont feel insulted toss players out there. it is just what i think and this post made me very very mad.
What are you trying to say??? I don't really understand what you're trying to achieve here
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On August 21 2011 16:41 sontyp wrote:
yea the tactics of protoss arsenal are pretty mean.
nothing feels worse than loosing to a tactic executed by a player with less skill than ur own. i feel sorry for xlord and co.
arent u ashamed that u beat these players due to the capabilites of ur race and not due to superior micro AND macro?
how do you feel executing these tactic? are u excited about it? what kind of person are you to make this your standard tactic versus zerg?
i mean sure there are at least 5 percent of the zergs standard 6pooling against toss because of such tactics. the rest is doing it just sometimes if they get annoyed by toss abusers. but protoss players always seem to love abusive and/or lame strategys.
i watched ur replays - i can´t see anything that 'counters' this game design failure.
also i think that the execution cant be done much better, even if huk would have tried this. thats the sad thing about toss - the actual control u need evens out the higher the level of skill gets. that means: i think huk and this spooner guy here or even white-ra have a skill difference of maybe 3percent. therefore the skill difference between sen and xlord is much more than 20percent.
sorry for gramar and or vocabular. im not a native speaker.
dont feel insulted toss players out there. it is just what i think and this post made me very very mad.
Mad? Why? I have lose numerous times to roach lings all in. Sometimes I miss my forcefield and get rolled. I made a mistake and got my army fungal. Does it mean the player is better or I am better in micro or macro? We play to get better. I don't think this is unstoppable. Infestors are hard to deal with but I am becoming better at dealing with it. This might be abusive, but so are infestors. If you can't stop it, it just means you are not good enough, it has nothing to do with your opponent.
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On August 21 2011 16:44 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 16:41 sontyp wrote:
yea the tactics of protoss arsenal are pretty mean.
nothing feels worse than loosing to a tactic executed by a player with less skill than ur own. i feel sorry for xlord and co.
arent u ashamed that u beat these players due to the capabilites of ur race and not due to superior micro AND macro?
how do you feel executing these tactic? are u excited about it? what kind of person are you to make this your standard tactic versus zerg?
i mean sure there are at least 5 percent of the zergs standard 6pooling against toss because of such tactics. the rest is doing it just sometimes if they get annoyed by toss abusers. but protoss players always seem to love abusive and/or lame strategys.
i watched ur replays - i can´t see anything that 'counters' this game design failure.
also i think that the execution cant be done much better, even if huk would have tried this. thats the sad thing about toss - the actual control u need evens out the higher the level of skill gets. that means: i think huk and this spooner guy here or even white-ra have a skill difference of maybe 3percent. therefore the skill difference between sen and xlord is much more than 20percent.
sorry for gramar and or vocabular. im not a native speaker.
dont feel insulted toss players out there. it is just what i think and this post made me very very mad. What are you trying to say??? I don't really understand what you're trying to achieve here
it looks alot like hes crapping all over toss without any real reason. but if we could get back to the topic at hand.......
Yeah i cant see any practical way for a zerg to deal with this once it hits his base. the only chance id say he'd have is if he were able to see it leave the toss base and intercept it , preferably when its out of position. i wouldnt call this imbalanced, you just have to know its coming and be on your toes 
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nice
cant wait till this gets nerfed
1.4 patch ftw
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On August 21 2011 08:02 McGuire72 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 07:42 Senros wrote:
This strategy seems very dependent upon the zerg being completely unaware of what you're doing. If the zerg spreads creep he would see this coming. Basically, the way you "counter" your build is by simply having map awareness and scouting. Let's say the zerg "scouts" and "has map awareness" like you suggest (thanks for that by the way), how does he prepare for this as it marches across the map? Move his roaches into his main and get cut off from his natural? Split his army in half and get killed? Stay in the natural and sac the main? Write blizzard an angry letter and QQ on teamliquid? I'm not sure what a good scout can even do to stop this unless you manage to decipher "+2 attack mass blink stalker with warp prism-ed sentry to block ramp" by OL scouting his base and build like 6 spines in your main while leaving your army at your natural.
I can't tell whether or not you're trying to convey sarcasm in that first sentence, oh well.
Anyway, You scout mass talker and twilight council. Assume blink stalker or dt, prepare for both. go infestor -ling (which destroys mass stalker) and move his army to his main. Then stalkers can't blink, whole army dead, expand and counter attack shortly for the win.
Problem protoss?
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What about the roach ling pressure or infestor play? I think this build is good only if the Zerg is really passive; and imo in Master (even diamond) it's rarely the case !
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i really hate FF. You just can't do anything as a zerg once the ramp is ff'ed. burred roaches are too slow to keep your tech alive. Its a matter of time when
a) queens can destroy ff
or
b) ff can't be spelled on creep.
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On August 21 2011 18:18 d33p wrote:
What about the roach ling pressure or infestor play? I think this build is good only if the Zerg is really passive; and imo in Master (even diamond) it's rarely the case !
Please watch replays. My opponents are gm zegrs, not diamond players.
Added a replay vs meyera
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EPT
