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United States59 Posts
Until I read this thread, I wanted to leave work, go home and ladder(Z). 
The counters being spouted off here all seem very weak, outside of scouting and trying to engage the force out in the open. I actually checked the estimated HotS release date to see if that might help (no).
If I were P this would probably be my default ladder build on viable maps. It seems safe, strong and with practice it would appear that you could shut down the zerg responses as well:
- Obs near ramp for roach ramp slaughter
- Focus loaded overlords
- Leave 4 units waiting outside of Nydus to kill the slow train (Or just kill the building)
- Cannon/sentry vs counterattack as shown in the Minigun game
If the strat is too good, it'll get fixed. Until then, A. I'll focus on putting my tech structures and Lair at my natural and B. I'll be terrified into remembering to scout vs FFE.
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This seems like another of the many attacks in PvZ where the zerg really needs to control the area near his ramp out past the choke instead of defending too close to the natural. Can't let the protoss anywhere NEAR the ramp into the main or he'll FF that ramp and get his army on the undefended side of it.
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Took 5 tries before it finally worked, but man was it fun when it did.
Question - do you rush for blink and robo tech, or do you just kind of let it come along as it will? Because I feel super vulnerable with only z zealot, a sentry, and 1 (or 2) cannons as my entire defense until blink is online.
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Absolutely love the build, well done. Good thing about this build is that I can't see it being affected too much by the next patch.
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Why? you don't move out immediately after you get blink. You don' thave enough troops, plus usually your warp prism isnt' done building (if you get an obs first to scout ahead). +30 seconds just gives you another round of stalkers to walk to his base, which honestly is prob better so that you don't get surrounded and killed on the way there.
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A thought on how to counter it... Let's assume you have good creep spread. if you spread creep well, you should have about 10 seconds to react to this and get units in your main, if not more.
Of course, should the toss see your army in your main with the warp prism, he'll go in your natural.
So how about this - we never see anything besides infestors, roaches, and banelings burrowed. How about we get our units in our main, then burrow them as quickly as possible. The toss will see an empty base (assuming you have a few spores or ways to deal with observers), and then face palms as he walked in a trap.
Of course, this is highly map dependent. I can't imagine this working on Shakuras plateau for instance, as he could just as easily choose to go for your natural. But on a map like Xel'Naga Caverns, if you see them coming up the side away from your natural , you can probably tells whats up.
I want to see more baneling mines in general, not just versus terran
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Cant wait for patch 1.4 to try it out!
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Burrow
Move under ground
Profit.
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On August 26 2011 20:16 Cosmos wrote:
Burrow
Move under ground
Profit.
1. Build observer
2. Kill burrowed units
3. ?????
4. PROFIT
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If zerg went infestorling they can pretty own this pretty hard if they see it coming. I wouldn't say it is unstoppable or anything.
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its a nice build for a showmatch but its not imbalanced.
i ve seen a protoss play this build vs mvp in a PvT some days ago in a replay. mvp defending a very early expo with 2 bunkers and basicly marines only.(just a few marauders when the stalkers hit the main with 2 sentries blocking ramp). easy gg vs mvp for that protoss.. dont see that too often.
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woow this seems pretty nice i gonna trie that next time on adder  thx man...
Edit: Just watched the replay against Forsen xD. So hilerious how he said in the beginning " A Protoss like you can never win against me". But at the same time the Zergs made many mistakes so its a nearly unbeatable strong build...
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I've been doing a varient of this type of strat since like oct 2010, its def not unstopable but can be useful.
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I guess protoss will see nothing out of zerg besides Ling Infestor.
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Ling infestor is not the only way to stop this. Roach/Hydra is a mix that is a bit dated, but with so many toss opting to go gate heavy in the mid-game lately I find myself using it a lot more.
Against this attack If you have good over lord spread around your base, and you stop that warp prism from getting into your main its pretty much an auto-win for zerg. You are guaranteed map control after fend off this attack and with Protoss pretty much dedicated to their tech route you secure a third and possibly forth and just contain Toss to two bases.
And another thing I find about this build is with the roach/hydra mix you are going to have a Toss who has to build a robo and robo bay just to counter your mix. So that's 2 minutes of almost guaranteed map control.
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With the new patch this might become stronger !!
The warp prism buff is nice. I think overall more and more people will be using prisms in pvz.
The infestor nerf is REALLY nice. Now (prepatch) fungal has insane dps vs armored stalkers and prevents blink. After the patch their damage will be decreased +-20% vs stalkers.
Small changes I made myself: I now place 3 sentries and a probe in the prism. The probe can build pylons and 3 sentries have more ff then one (duh). One needs to be really carefull for counterattacks. I therefore recommend to leave some sentries home. On maps like Antiga shipyard and Shakuras plateau, this is more then enough.
You are also not obligated to send all your stalkers to the main. You can also split half the stalkers to the third, and half into the main.
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I upload another replay to reply to some criticism.
In this game my opponent, roxkisLive (gm zerg), knows 100% it is coming. He masses upgraded lings. He place his army in his main ready to intercept my blink stalkers. A couple of queens target my warp prism. The ideal counter?
I still outmanouver him and proceed to take an easy win. It is really easy to force your opponent out of position when you have sentries, warp prism and blink stalkers.
The game:
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=228715
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On August 24 2011 10:48 maragin wrote:Until I read this thread, I wanted to leave work, go home and ladder(Z). The counters being spouted off here all seem very weak, outside of scouting and trying to engage the force out in the open. I actually checked the estimated HotS release date to see if that might help (no). If I were P this would probably be my default ladder build on viable maps. It seems safe, strong and with practice it would appear that you could shut down the zerg responses as well: - Obs near ramp for roach ramp slaughter - Focus loaded overlords - Leave 4 units waiting outside of Nydus to kill the slow train (Or just kill the building) - Cannon/sentry vs counterattack as shown in the Minigun game If the strat is too good, it'll get fixed. Until then, A. I'll focus on putting my tech structures and Lair at my natural and B. I'll be terrified into remembering to scout vs FFE.
Hmm you will actually have kind of a hard time defending an all-in.They should fix this because Zergs should be able to hold off any Protoss all-in without severe casualties or any effort other than building roaches to counter it. /sarcasm
Focus loaded overlords?You have twice as many overlords than it takes to load your army.You can't tell apart loaded ones and unloaded ones.Argument = invalid.
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On August 26 2011 21:19 FreejaN wrote:1. Build observer 2. Kill burrowed units 3. ????? 4. PROFIT
I LOLed pretty hard at that. Good one 
On topic:
I know this thread is rather old, therefore also rendering the strategy outdated as well. I would just like to know how relevant this strat is in today's metagame for PvZ? We don't often see professional players do this kind of build in major tournaments, so that leaves me to think either two things:
1. They know that their opponents will potentially have the ability to easily shut it down, and
2. It isn't that strong anymore.
All I'd like to know is whether this build can still be pulled off with moderate success these days. Blink stalkers are one of my favourite units to use in the PvZ matchup so it would be obvious that I am interested in this kind of strategy. I've never really tried something like this (I'm quite new still with toss, since I switched from Terran recently) and would definitely like to incorporate it into my play. All I need is some relevant tips on how to do it in today's metagame. Of course I will still be viewing the uploaded replays. Thanks in advance.
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I think its still relevant, especially at non GM levels (who knows whats relevant there . The warp prism is getting more play now a days anyway, so they might not know what you are up to. The nice thing about the build is although its not the strongest possible unit composition, it will work fairly well against everything, and particularly well against a few things (fast muties come to mind). It isn't a BO loss vs anything the zerg can do, although it seems to me that zergling/hydra could be troublesome. Even in that case you can still easily defend with the cannons and tech to colossi, you will have an observer out, so its not like you are forced into an ill advised attack. Meeting lings w/ hydras 1/2 way across the map would probably be the worst case scenario, but in that case you can just use the mobility of blink to get into a favorable position, or retreat and tech up as you see fit. This isn't an all in, but you don't have the brute force to take on their army in the open field, hence back to the OP, you have to split their army to have a real advantage. This relies more on positioning than anything, and I don't believe is ever going to be outdated.
One thing to keep in mind, if the splitting of their army doesn't happen, and you retreat, it may make taking a 3rd base more difficult! You will probably be forced to get colossi or storm to deal AOE damage and do so on 2 bases. This isn't the end of the world, but may make this strat more applicable to those maps where getting a third is easier. Those in the higher ranks would probably have more insight than I (I'm plat protoss/diamond terran, I switched over to prot not too long ago too!)
On a side note, I sometimes have trouble with FFE getting busted, and noticed from the latest replay that AA.spoon makes 4 or 5 cannons preemptively. I think this is a good idea, will prevent all ins nicely. If you can scout that he went for a quick third, some pros chrono out 2 zealots and attack it forcing the zerg to make some zerglings instead of pure drones. If the zerg stays on 2 bases this is a waste.
GL!
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EPT
