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[G] PvZ: guide to an imbalanced special tactic - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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chaopow
Profile Joined March 2011
United States556 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-22 23:32:15
August 22 2011 23:31 GMT
#181
Wow this strategy looks very nice!! I think they cant do much about it even if they do see it coming, and their entire army is in their main base, just FF the main ramp and kill their natural! If they split half and half of their army between the natural and the main, you FF the other half out and kill the small half. It feels unstoppable as long as the protoss executes it correctly.

This is a really good tactic. Possible counter=hydras in position??
Soowoo AD.
Zaganna
Profile Joined May 2011
Italy17 Posts
August 23 2011 00:59 GMT
#182
Sentry can't blink, so you need a good multitasking for blink + Diseble warp prism + lift up Sentry + Drop them down.
It's not possible, but you can lost 1 round of warp, but the zerg can do his own round of larva.

I think is a good (and cool) strategy, especially because you made a good use of the prism.
But since is an evolution of blinkstalker harras, it could be faced in the same way:scouting.
creep spread, overlords, control of xel'naga towers.

Probably, scouting doesn't mean totally countering, and whend the attack start it will be the skilled player who'll win.
But calling this strategy Imbalanced...i think is too much
HybridZ
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada103 Posts
August 23 2011 03:49 GMT
#183
Lol burrowed roaches counters this. There's no need for Ovie drops or nydus.
For Char! Written on Iphone
Skyro
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1823 Posts
August 23 2011 05:00 GMT
#184
Looks very interesting, but wouldn't doing a 1-base version w/o blink hit a lot earlier and be dramatically more effective since zerg would have less counters available to them earlier in the game? You can simply phase your warp prism at the edge of their base which would allow you to elevator units above or below. I guess I'm saying it seems delaying the push seems unnecessary.
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
August 23 2011 05:19 GMT
#185
wait so what about hydra? most zerg i play against have hydra way before this attack would come out, even with great blink micro there is no way the hydra attack would not kill this especially mass roach hydra ling and then the counter would be brutal. I understand the idea with this is to pressure and either win or take a 3rd get collo attack, take a 4th get ht's or v-ray and win.
My problem here is that there is no way to deny a 3rd and stop drone production unless you snipe the 3rd which would be effective if the zerg doesn't get spines.
i guess the rational here is
get stalkers
get blink
blink micro to win / get advantage
???
profit :D
User was warned for too many mimes.
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
August 23 2011 05:21 GMT
#186
On August 23 2011 14:00 Skyro wrote:
Looks very interesting, but wouldn't doing a 1-base version w/o blink hit a lot earlier and be dramatically more effective since zerg would have less counters available to them earlier in the game? You can simply phase your warp prism at the edge of their base which would allow you to elevator units above or below. I guess I'm saying it seems delaying the push seems unnecessary.


I was doing a one base version with gateways that was quite effective (very cheesy obviously). The thing is, there is no real counter to this, it's all about unit positionning. I hear everyone mention drops and burrowed roaches and other silly things but it's really not the way to defeat this (otherwise it would truly be imbalanced).

People will start massing lings if they see you staying on one base with 3 gates, this makes the journey to the opponent's base quite perillous. After a FFE though, especially if the zerg double expands "IM style" I can see it being more effective.
instantdry
Profile Joined September 2007
Canada308 Posts
August 23 2011 05:29 GMT
#187
Saw Minigun do this as well..

MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
August 23 2011 05:53 GMT
#188
On August 23 2011 14:29 instantdry wrote:
Saw Minigun do this as well..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDFlZ-O0zEU&feature=feedu


Gotta admit, on this map I don't know what I would do to stop it.
Superpower
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia212 Posts
August 23 2011 06:16 GMT
#189
this is miniguns blink stalker all in? well at least thats what he said and he gets excactly what you get, blink stalkers and a warp prism with sentrys
Taeja <3
Yakob
Profile Joined July 2011
United States15 Posts
August 23 2011 06:23 GMT
#190
if the zerg saw this coming they could snipe the prism before it got to the base. the protoss could either continue pushing and try to take out the natural or wait for another prism with sentry. either way the threat of the push is greatly reduced. burrow micro is better then blink micro if the protoss doesnt have an obs and with static defenses the zerg could hold it. all they need to do is hold it off until they get an infestor with a couple fungal growths and mass speedlings and that stlaker army is gone
malthias
Profile Joined November 2010
25 Posts
August 23 2011 08:35 GMT
#191
On August 23 2011 06:53 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
hm .. so if i scout this, how should i prepare ? if i move my army to the main, i get trapped and nat is raped, if i stay at nat, he blinks to main and blocks ramp => tech/main is lost. nydus/burrowed roaches/drop will be too slow in most cases.
the only counter i can think of is to catch his forces on the open field. however this won't work well with Zergy-build-army-just-when-attacked. Preemptive army = autolose for Z.
Both fungal and ff imho are somewhat missdesigned. in BW there was stasis (freeze units for a time). bloodbad (like fungal, more damage but units could move), ensnare (slowdown, but no damage). fungal is like bloodbad+ensnare. FF: get 6,7 sentries and block any choke forever. the game would profit if those spells get nerfed somewhat.
each of the BW spells was somewhat counterable by unit positing, healing, retreat.


You have given your own answer to your question. The most common response to a blink stalker 2 base all-in are speedlings or roaches off 3 bases anyway (+ infestors if it is a late push) engaging in the middle of the map. Most people know when to produce units when they scout these pushes and are ready in time. It is not like you are making units only once the Protoss leaves his base. Just in time does not mean 'when he is killing all my freakin' base'.

Even if you fail to respond in time, you probably still have a chance to hold it if you have infestors. FG the prism before it can drop he sentries. FG the stalkers before they blink into your base. Spam IT and kill the sentries + prism at the ramp. Tbh I can think of plenty of responses that can work - obviously the damage is already done if they are in your base, but it is not much different from a Terran drop, a ling run-by, a nydus or any other sneaky attack - if you scout it coming in time, you can stop it.
JoeAWESOME
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden1080 Posts
August 23 2011 09:14 GMT
#192
It's idd strong if you can do it but it's very risky. Hydras will eat through that warp prism and losing a warp prism full of Sentries is very very expensive. Also if you get caught out mid map your army will not be as strong due to investement in the robo tech + warp prism.
Simply Awesome! - Liquid'Ret - NSHoSeo_Seal - coLMVP_DRG - EG_Idra - Fnatic.NightEnd
MeLo
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia192 Posts
August 23 2011 16:10 GMT
#193
Counter attacks with base race would destroy this.
Sn0wM4
Profile Joined April 2011
Bulgaria68 Posts
August 23 2011 16:24 GMT
#194
On August 23 2011 00:51 Jermstuddog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 00:34 TolEranceNA wrote:
Or, we can just wait for blizzard to patch this .. oh wait!


I've been waiting over a year for Blizzard to make Queens massive...

Why wait for a patch when it's obvious it's not needed.If queens were massive it would be really overpowered.When you scout this you either get overlord drop or a nydus worm.Problem - solved.
StatX
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada343 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-23 16:34:53
August 23 2011 16:33 GMT
#195
This tactic works because zergs never makes nydus between bases and to their opponent (only rarely). When zergs understand that nydus grants an easy mobility of troops similar to protos warps, they will come on top. Burrowed roaches will work just fine as well.
Can we snipe it? Yes we can!
Gobbles
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada91 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-23 16:47:38
August 23 2011 16:47 GMT
#196
Ah jeeze, I was hoping no one noticed how good this build is. It was hard enough when my army got caught partially in my main and my natural got wrecked. Nice write up and this is a killer build. Perhaps a nydus between bases will be the future!

Edit: the only way to do damage vs this would be to counter attack and go for the base race. my 2 cents.
You already said spite
Aletheia27
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States267 Posts
August 23 2011 16:50 GMT
#197
On August 23 2011 08:06 Meff wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 00:51 Jermstuddog wrote:
On August 23 2011 00:34 TolEranceNA wrote:
Or, we can just wait for blizzard to patch this .. oh wait!


I've been waiting over a year for Blizzard to make Queens massive...

Amusingly enough, that would now give void rays a +20% damage against them.

Perhaps it could be as simple as leaving a spine crawler on each side of the choke - though three hits mean that a suicidal sentry can still approach and forcefield as needed.


Basically this. Except I imagine putting spines on top of the ridge makes one think twice about blinking up. Stalkers can't really move away from the edge easily without taking a lot of damage and you should be flanking with lings so.... this seems manageable and not really broken/imbalanced in anyway...
I am that I am
TolEranceNA
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada434 Posts
August 23 2011 16:51 GMT
#198
i guess we will have to go ling infestor now! : p
Arotsis:"Nestea, what do you think about Zerg?" Nestea:"...Sad."
Jacobs Ladder
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1705 Posts
August 23 2011 16:53 GMT
#199
On August 24 2011 01:47 Gobbles wrote:
Ah jeeze, I was hoping no one noticed how good this build is. It was hard enough when my army got caught partially in my main and my natural got wrecked. Nice write up and this is a killer build. Perhaps a nydus between bases will be the future!

Edit: the only way to do damage vs this would be to counter attack and go for the base race. my 2 cents.

My thoughts were basically "wow, I love this build" ... "Wait, does this mean zerg will get nydus/drops more? Fuck this build ."
TechnoSchaman
Profile Joined October 2010
United States156 Posts
August 23 2011 16:54 GMT
#200
i tried this against a ling infester build, and they threw about a bajillion infested terrans up the ramp, which called my WP, and all my sentries before i could get them away, leaving me with wounded blink stalkers and a swarm of zerglings ran up the ramp. it seems like a counter to me
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