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i had this done to me
gay as fuck but definately manageable. once you get the ability to realize that he's doing a sentry drop into main you either get drop on overlords spine crawlers in your main or spam hydras and lings. the push isn't that strong it's just that people don't know it's coming and it's rather cheesey. just spread overlords and scout for warp prism. as soon as it comes into your base be ready for it and it it's just a normal blink stalker attack.
i would consider defending this as just a normal blink stalker attack get hydras lings or infestors ready and just make sure you deny that warp prism. if this attack fails the zerg is way ahead
reason why it seems so op is that zergs just don't know about this yet. it's like blue flame hellion + marine drops now people are just denying the drop with like 3 queens and additional precautions. there weren't any precautions before the tactic was introduced
i think this attack is more effective as a 1 base all without blink.
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Just had this done to me on ladder. Despite my whininess earlier in the thread, I actually held it with nothing but roaches. Basically you need to spot it coming (I had an inkling he might try it) and pick off as many of his stalkers as you can as it comes across the map. Picking off the warp prism is obviously target #1 with queens or whatever you have at your disposal. From there I just made a point of targeting down the sentries (he dropped 4 in my base instead of 1) on the outside of the high ground (in range of my roaches). From there just clean up as best I could. Didn't lose too much in my main and I was on three base anyway. Just transitioned into mass upgraded roaches and infestors and blink stalkers are not an issue.
here's the replay if anyone cares to see a successful hold... now this is diamond league so no doubt this isn't the "optimal" form of the build or hold, but it's an example of how you can do it.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/175975-1v1-protoss-zerg-nerazim-crypt
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haha that video was of me T_T i just assumed hed do some sorta blink +2 timing, and id crush it with ling infestor. jokes on me^^
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On August 22 2011 03:40 McGuire72 wrote:Just had this done to me on ladder. Despite my whininess earlier in the thread, I actually held it with nothing but roaches. Basically you need to spot it coming (I had an inkling he might try it) and pick off as many of his stalkers as you can as it comes across the map. Picking off the warp prism is obviously target #1 with queens or whatever you have at your disposal. From there I just made a point of targeting down the sentries (he dropped 4 in my base instead of 1) on the outside of the high ground (in range of my roaches). From there just clean up as best I could. Didn't lose too much in my main and I was on three base anyway. Just transitioned into mass upgraded roaches and infestors and blink stalkers are not an issue. here's the replay if anyone cares to see a successful hold... now this is diamond league so no doubt this isn't the "optimal" form of the build or hold, but it's an example of how you can do it. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/175975-1v1-protoss-zerg-nerazim-crypt
Yeah you probably won because he let his sentries get in range + die  If this was done optimally without being scouted then I don't see the zerg winning in my opinion. I will try this build and edit it into this post later.
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On August 21 2011 18:36 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
i really hate FF. You just can't do anything as a zerg once the ramp is ff'ed. burred roaches are too slow to keep your tech alive. Its a matter of time when
a) queens can destroy ff
or
b) ff can't be spelled on creep.
This. i'd love to see point b in the next patch, but it will probably only be a. One might consider adding c:
FF can't be spelled near a queen (lets say 1 hex around the queen).
or d:
FF's can't be spelled on slopes.
FF's use to be very very strong, but never OP. This will change things, haha.
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On August 22 2011 03:48 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:40 McGuire72 wrote:Just had this done to me on ladder. Despite my whininess earlier in the thread, I actually held it with nothing but roaches. Basically you need to spot it coming (I had an inkling he might try it) and pick off as many of his stalkers as you can as it comes across the map. Picking off the warp prism is obviously target #1 with queens or whatever you have at your disposal. From there I just made a point of targeting down the sentries (he dropped 4 in my base instead of 1) on the outside of the high ground (in range of my roaches). From there just clean up as best I could. Didn't lose too much in my main and I was on three base anyway. Just transitioned into mass upgraded roaches and infestors and blink stalkers are not an issue. here's the replay if anyone cares to see a successful hold... now this is diamond league so no doubt this isn't the "optimal" form of the build or hold, but it's an example of how you can do it. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/175975-1v1-protoss-zerg-nerazim-crypt Yeah you probably won because he let his sentries get in range + die If this was done optimally without being scouted then I don't see the zerg winning in my opinion. I will try this build and edit it into this post later.
I don't doubt this. I just watched it myself and my opponent was... not doing very well. To say the least.
However, the BIG thing to take away from it is that i managed to cut off the main stalker ball in the middle of the map, so all he had in my main was the 4 sentries he dropped, and the 5 stalkers he warped in before i killed the prism. By not allowing the main stalker ball to get within blinking range, I saved the game. If he'd got his stalkers up in my base, I lose regardless of how careless he is with his sentries.
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[QUOTE]On August 22 2011 03:52 Hetz wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 21 2011 18:36 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
FF's can't be spelled on slopes.
[/QUOTE]
..... v_v
Aaaaand here come the zerglings into every protoss's main base!
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On August 22 2011 03:52 Hetz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 18:36 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
i really hate FF. You just can't do anything as a zerg once the ramp is ff'ed. burred roaches are too slow to keep your tech alive. Its a matter of time when
a) queens can destroy ff
or
b) ff can't be spelled on creep. This. i'd love to see point b in the next patch, but it will probably only be a. One might consider adding c: FF can't be spelled near a queen (lets say 1 hex around the queen). or d: FF's can't be spelled on slopes. FF's use to be very very strong, but never OP. This will change things, haha.
Well if you want to make sentries useless...
A is pretty retarded , more or less (retarded) depending on how the queen can destroy it.
B is stupid it's not as big of a nerf as A,C and D but will make Protoss have to deny creep spread constantly which in the lower leagues would be game-breaking.
C means queens would be a massive unit making them way too strong at defending Stargate pressure which is already nerfed enough to make it not as viable.
D makes PvT and PvZ unwinable.All Terran would need to do is either 3rax or really any Terran rush/all-in and Zerg would have to 7 Roach rush.
Forcefield is as balanced as possible and nerfing it or removing it would make Protoss unplayable.
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Forcefields need a fix. Making it last shorter? Cost more energy?
They are strong enough outside of the ramps already. There should be something preventing them to block enemy ramps indefinitely.
User was warned for this post
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lol the execution of this strategy is actually really hard. Really requires a lot of multitasking but also requires lots of skill from the zerg to hold it off!
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On August 21 2011 18:56 brotlov wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 18:53 aebriol wrote:On August 21 2011 18:50 VK-Vio wrote:
As a zerg the only thing I can really think of is being more proactive with the ovie positioning to stop the blink up going unnoticed I've beaten this by just going for a basetrade instantly, and spine up my third. Focusing down probes and nexus. If you watch the video of minigun doing it, he stops the basetrade by warping in a couple of sentrys at his natural choke, and forcefielding the ramp. With cannons, forcefields and some stalkers warping, the base trade for zerg is no longer an option
this is map dependent, on some maps like xel'naga caverns the basetrade would be very viable as ff would not hold as well
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On August 22 2011 04:15 Sn0wM4 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:52 Hetz wrote:On August 21 2011 18:36 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
i really hate FF. You just can't do anything as a zerg once the ramp is ff'ed. burred roaches are too slow to keep your tech alive. Its a matter of time when
a) queens can destroy ff
or
b) ff can't be spelled on creep. This. i'd love to see point b in the next patch, but it will probably only be a. One might consider adding c: FF can't be spelled near a queen (lets say 1 hex around the queen). or d: FF's can't be spelled on slopes. FF's use to be very very strong, but never OP. This will change things, haha. Well if you want to make sentries useless... A is pretty retarded , more or less (retarded) depending on how the queen can destroy it. B is stupid it's not as big of a nerf as A,C and D but will make Protoss have to deny creep spread constantly which in the lower leagues would be game-breaking. C means queens would be a massive unit making them way too strong at defending Stargate pressure which is already nerfed enough to make it not as viable. D makes PvT and PvZ unwinable.All Terran would need to do is either 3rax or really any Terran rush/all-in and Zerg would have to 7 Roach rush. Forcefield is as balanced as possible and nerfing it or removing it would make Protoss unplayable.
Forcefield cannot be placed on Creep.
Terran doesn't have as big of a problem with this, and this would also end the bullshit of Protoss retreating with FF/ engaging with FF on creep.
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I would say 'forcefield has lower duration on creep'. It seems a bit better than just outright disallowing it on creep.
If we accept the premise that force field are a problem in zvp. Which I don't think it is, besides rampforcefielding.
How about; a zergling upgrade that they can cliff walk, but can only cliff walk _down.
If this attack would happen, they will still be able to defend the main. If he switches to the natural, the zerglings (at least) can still get out. I'm not sure of any down sides, besides that it makes it easier to 'save' zergligns after runby's and sneak in's and all that good stuff.
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I didn't read all the comments, so maybe I missed something, sorry.
But, yeah, theoretical it sounds powerful, but I think if the Zerg sees it coming, it can be defended, and I think with good scouting you can easily see it coming. But I dunno how it plays out ..
I think it's a real different story, when it actually get played AND I don't think it's unbalanced, only hard to defend, if you don't scout ..
Btw. I'm Zerg
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you cant see prism is coming.you will first see stalkers.so you cant adapt fast bro.on master level all zerg will have trouble with this.
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On August 22 2011 04:15 Sn0wM4 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:52 Hetz wrote:On August 21 2011 18:36 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
i really hate FF. You just can't do anything as a zerg once the ramp is ff'ed. burred roaches are too slow to keep your tech alive. Its a matter of time when
a) queens can destroy ff
or
b) ff can't be spelled on creep. This. i'd love to see point b in the next patch, but it will probably only be a. One might consider adding c: FF can't be spelled near a queen (lets say 1 hex around the queen). or d: FF's can't be spelled on slopes. FF's use to be very very strong, but never OP. This will change things, haha. Well if you want to make sentries useless... A is pretty retarded , more or less (retarded) depending on how the queen can destroy it. B is stupid it's not as big of a nerf as A,C and D but will make Protoss have to deny creep spread constantly which in the lower leagues would be game-breaking. C means queens would be a massive unit making them way too strong at defending Stargate pressure which is already nerfed enough to make it not as viable. D makes PvT and PvZ unwinable.All Terran would need to do is either 3rax or really any Terran rush/all-in and Zerg would have to 7 Roach rush. Forcefield is as balanced as possible and nerfing it or removing it would make Protoss unplayable.
How would B break lower leagues? They would have to spread creep in the first place...
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On August 22 2011 03:52 Hetz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 18:36 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
i really hate FF. You just can't do anything as a zerg once the ramp is ff'ed. burred roaches are too slow to keep your tech alive. Its a matter of time when
a) queens can destroy ff
or
b) ff can't be spelled on creep. This. i'd love to see point b in the next patch, but it will probably only be a. One might consider adding c: FF can't be spelled near a queen (lets say 1 hex around the queen). or d: FF's can't be spelled on slopes. FF's use to be very very strong, but never OP. This will change things, haha.
Make Queen massive and the problem with FF is solved. It should make sense with a massive queen, she even moves in slow motion of creep.
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On August 22 2011 05:05 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 04:15 Sn0wM4 wrote:On August 22 2011 03:52 Hetz wrote:On August 21 2011 18:36 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
i really hate FF. You just can't do anything as a zerg once the ramp is ff'ed. burred roaches are too slow to keep your tech alive. Its a matter of time when
a) queens can destroy ff
or
b) ff can't be spelled on creep. This. i'd love to see point b in the next patch, but it will probably only be a. One might consider adding c: FF can't be spelled near a queen (lets say 1 hex around the queen). or d: FF's can't be spelled on slopes. FF's use to be very very strong, but never OP. This will change things, haha. Well if you want to make sentries useless... A is pretty retarded , more or less (retarded) depending on how the queen can destroy it. B is stupid it's not as big of a nerf as A,C and D but will make Protoss have to deny creep spread constantly which in the lower leagues would be game-breaking. C means queens would be a massive unit making them way too strong at defending Stargate pressure which is already nerfed enough to make it not as viable. D makes PvT and PvZ unwinable.All Terran would need to do is either 3rax or really any Terran rush/all-in and Zerg would have to 7 Roach rush. Forcefield is as balanced as possible and nerfing it or removing it would make Protoss unplayable. How would B break lower leagues? They would have to spread creep in the first place... You have creep around your Hatches and spreading creep isn't that hard in the first place I've seen it done way back when I was Gold.
Edit:Also imagine a roach(or any unit really) push backed up by overlords spreading creep you can't forcefield them and you can't even kill the overlords because they are above the huge roach ball.
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On August 22 2011 04:38 ToastieNL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 04:15 Sn0wM4 wrote:On August 22 2011 03:52 Hetz wrote:On August 21 2011 18:36 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
i really hate FF. You just can't do anything as a zerg once the ramp is ff'ed. burred roaches are too slow to keep your tech alive. Its a matter of time when
a) queens can destroy ff
or
b) ff can't be spelled on creep. This. i'd love to see point b in the next patch, but it will probably only be a. One might consider adding c: FF can't be spelled near a queen (lets say 1 hex around the queen). or d: FF's can't be spelled on slopes. FF's use to be very very strong, but never OP. This will change things, haha. Well if you want to make sentries useless... A is pretty retarded , more or less (retarded) depending on how the queen can destroy it. B is stupid it's not as big of a nerf as A,C and D but will make Protoss have to deny creep spread constantly which in the lower leagues would be game-breaking. C means queens would be a massive unit making them way too strong at defending Stargate pressure which is already nerfed enough to make it not as viable. D makes PvT and PvZ unwinable.All Terran would need to do is either 3rax or really any Terran rush/all-in and Zerg would have to 7 Roach rush. Forcefield is as balanced as possible and nerfing it or removing it would make Protoss unplayable. Forcefield cannot be placed on Creep. Terran doesn't have as big of a problem with this, and this would also end the bullshit of Protoss retreating with FF/ engaging with FF on creep.
Sorry, that's just plain and simply retarded. You can't solve the issue of ramp-blocking with forcefields by completely gimping protoss vs zerg when zergs don't even need help in the match-up. Making queens massive or something similar is a much better solution.
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On August 21 2011 12:36 MuffinFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 12:01 Flonomenalz wrote:On August 21 2011 10:56 MuffinFTW wrote:
To deal with base trades situations, I think u just have to fly the warp prism back and hopefully be able to pick up a probe to make stuff + blink stalkers are REALLY good for base trades. Yeah except you're going to have Roach/Ling destroying 2 bases against Pure Blink Stalker destroying 3 bases, potentially 4. There's just no way you win a base trade at all. Did u not read? If u have a probe in a warp prism, by flying it back to pick one up, you'll be able to constantly make pylons WITH your army, so they can't snipe.
Yeahh because I'm not going to see your warp prism fly back and pick up a probe, and I won't follow it with a few lings.
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EPT
