|
Hi all -
I'm Masters level meching terran - been mech 100% since beta. I'm able to hold off any early game shenanigans from protoss well. I don't fear templar tech at all and react well to collosus with vikings. Our armies meet somewhere in the metagame and I can usually win the encounter.
The problem I'm seeing is the tech transition where the protoss stops collosus production and just warps in mass stalkers. His mobility is far too great for my mech army +vikings. He usually ends up blinking up into a base, picking off a few buildings/addons/scvs and blinking out. I am struggling to find out how to properly react to this with my slow mech army.
Suggestions? Thanks ahead of time.
|
|
|
have you tried adding turrets to prevent vision of the high ground from observers and warp prisms so the stalkers will not be able to blink up?
|
As a mech terran master :
- Sensor tower to see it coming
- PF at key blink points
- few tanks in mining bases
-Use your hellions to harass (force him to keep few units at home)
- If he's doing to much damage,just go 'fuckin' kill him', he'll be forced to defend
If you have enough ressources and if he's doing nothing but stalkers, you can also get a few more techlabbed rax to get marauders with stim, which help a LOT
|
On August 20 2011 16:46 Turo wrote:
Replays please =]
Yeah, I'll try to get some replays up soon, sorry about that. I'm out of town atm and not on my gaming computer 
On August 20 2011 16:49 fireproofazn wrote:
have you tried adding turrets to prevent vision of the high ground from observers and warp prisms so the stalkers will not be able to blink up?
Yes, but still great feedback! I usually have a turret ring around my base(s), especially in vulnerable spots. Unfortunately it does not take much vision to get 1 single stalker up there and then blink up the rest. This will likely just be something I have to be super aggressive about watching the mini-map for when I suspect he's going to try to snipe some of my production.
On August 20 2011 16:49 Lyyna wrote:
As a mech terran master :
- Sensor tower to see it coming
- PF at key blink points
- few tanks in mining bases
-Use your hellions to harass (force him to keep few units at home)
- If he's doing to much damage,just go 'fuckin' kill him', he'll be forced to defend
If you have enough ressources and if he's doing nothing but stalkers, you can also get a few more techlabbed rax to get marauders with stim, which help a LOT
Some great advice, thank you! Hadn't thought of PF... might be the perfect solution. I kinda figured that it would just come down to putting down a sensor tower and being a vigilant hawk staring at my mini-map and then making a decision when to "just go and fuckin' kill him". 
|
Blink stalkers are one of the key weaknesses of TvP mech play and probably the reason meching isn't that good imo (along with immortals). Stopping blink stalker harass is nearly unstoppable with mech as stalkers are super mobile and severely stomp hellions and unsieged tanks.
The way to stop it therefore is really to have planetaries at all your base beyond the first two as they can defend harass alone. For the rest you really need well positioned siege tanks that cover both main and natural, this makes mech simply impossible at some maps imo but decent at others.
At high level mech just becomes unplayable imo as the mobility of it is just terrible while it's hardly strong enough in straight up fights to make up for that. Ofcourse someone will say Goody or whatever is doing fine with it but that's simply not true either, there is no top T that mechs consistently with success
|
Blink stalker harass is stoppable,i gave a few solutions (sensor towers, which are basically never used, few marauders, PF)
Hellions , with enough micro, in great numbers,can fight stalkers in a (strange) cost effective way
Unsieged tank are really good too, not as much as sieged, but their dps is still huge
And if he's going pure stalker, as i said, just go for marauders (you should already have these techlabed rax for ghosts). Marauders/tanks will just crush him
Or just go 'fuckin' kill him'
If mech isn't played it's not because it's less efficient, it's just that it's far harder to play compared to standard MMMGV, which is basically based on multidrop and micro management, while mech requires good timings, game sense, a strong mid/late game plan and beast positionning
|
I also 100% mech in TvP. Blink is very easy to deal with. Personally i make like 4 Ravens for my mech. PDD is amazing. Drop a few PDDs and unsiege your tanks. Tanks in tank mode have the same DPS as Stim Marauders and no overkill.
As for Blink all-in on your Expos. PF and repair will make their attack very costly. At the same time you run-by your BF hellions. Always threaten with Hellions. This prevents Toss from moving out.
And if he goes for the base trade. Do it. Terran always wins this because we can lift our buildings.
|
You definitely need a few tanks in your base to defend, because your army is too immobile to catch the stalkers otherwise. Also, that ranks as one of the worst uses of the word metagame I've ever seen
|
On August 21 2011 06:06 Micket wrote:You definitely need a few tanks in your base to defend, because your army is too immobile to catch the stalkers otherwise. Also, that ranks as one of the worst uses of the word metagame I've ever seen
The thing is that if you have 3 tanks at each base:
1) Thats 9 food not in battle.2) And the Toss Blink Stalker ball will kill them any how. PFs make more sence. If they want an expo make it an expensive endeavor and attack them back where it hurts.
Heck make 2 PFs if you flipping need to. Not to mention the Stalkers need vision. Build turrets with range upgrade.
|
As GinDo said building several ravens for PDD. If he's blinking into your base try to split your tanks so you can catch at least some when he blinks out. And of course always have hellions running into his mineral lines! Personally I have given up mech for TvP though
|
On August 21 2011 06:14 Huggerz wrote:
As GinDo said building several ravens for PDD. If he's blinking into your base try to split your tanks so you can catch at least some when he blinks out. And of course always have hellions running into his mineral lines! Personally I have given up mech for TvP though
Marauders are so much easier. But I actually love playing Mech. I personally feel its viable, but it hasn't been developed because maruaders are so good.
Mech in SC2 is just as hard as it was in BW.
|
It's pretty simple, mech is designed to be efficient against low HP units, like marines and zerg. You 1-2 shot everything, have much greater range, so there is significant reduction in enemy DPS.
Stim bio is more DPS efficient for sustained fights against high HP units, like the majority of the P army.
When mines that do 125 dmg and 2 supply tanks that do full damage to shields and 70 vs armored come back, mech will be viable.
|
On August 21 2011 07:15 naventus wrote:
It's pretty simple, mech is designed to be efficient against low HP units, like marines and zerg. You 1-2 shot everything, have much greater range, so there is significant reduction in enemy DPS.
Stim bio is more DPS efficient for sustained fights against high HP units, like the majority of the P army.
When mines that do 125 dmg and 2 supply tanks that do full damage to shields and 70 vs armored come back, mech will be viable.
PDD makes up for 3 food tanks. Everyone's gone ghost mech, but have neglected how OP PDD is.
|
On August 21 2011 07:01 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 06:14 Huggerz wrote:
As GinDo said building several ravens for PDD. If he's blinking into your base try to split your tanks so you can catch at least some when he blinks out. And of course always have hellions running into his mineral lines! Personally I have given up mech for TvP though Marauders are so much easier. But I actually love playing Mech. I personally feel its viable, but it hasn't been developed because maruaders are so good. Mech in SC2 is just as hard as it was in BW.
This is exactly how I feel about the state of Terran... I believe marauders are just better versions of tanks. The only reason to get a tank is for the range & splash. Then if you look at the whole rine v hellion argument it gets real interesting. Throw in the healing and versatility (drop play) of medivacs and you have a bio playstyle that is not only far easier, but very successful.
I love the mech talk though! I am really interested because I've been just going ghost mech but GinDo has brought up this PDD style? How do you justify getting a raven for 200 gas just for PDD which blocks only 20 shots when ghosts EMP are so powerful vs all units and they are cheap after the patch. I usually just have a reactor on my starport so I'm prepared for collosus.
|
Here's an example game of mine of what i'm talking about.
Even with a turret to discourage obs view of high ground isn't enough to stop this from happening...
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-227452.jpg)
|
Basically,getting a sensor tower could have helped, allowing you to siege your tanks at the right place before his blink
But his harass wasn't good , he lost more than you
|
Yeah I agree. This game could of probably been won with a well placed sensor tower or maybe even getting the 3rd up at the right time (giving me more vision so my main isn't so vulnerable on this particular map).
I'm pretty embarrassed to have lost this one... I feel he made quite a few mistakes - but obviously I made more!
|
I don't see the argument for PDD at all. A single PDD is break-even for raven cost. You need two to be really efficient as a caster, but that takes forever to get. 200 gas / m is basically one entire base of gas income.
To me the only explored area of mech is whether or not hellions + EMP can beat stalkers. Blink clumps stalkers and makes them more vulnerable to EMP + hellion splash. If hellions can reasonably beat stalkers that way, then thats worth examining.
But you still have problems with air, and with mech that's spread out, and awkward openings.
|
Russian Federation823 Posts
|
Russian Federation823 Posts
On August 21 2011 03:25 Markwerf wrote:
Blink stalkers are one of the key weaknesses of TvP mech play and probably the reason meching isn't that good imo (along with immortals). Stopping blink stalker harass is nearly unstoppable with mech as stalkers are super mobile and severely stomp hellions and unsieged tanks.
The way to stop it therefore is really to have planetaries at all your base beyond the first two as they can defend harass alone. For the rest you really need well positioned siege tanks that cover both main and natural, this makes mech simply impossible at some maps imo but decent at others.
At high level mech just becomes unplayable imo as the mobility of it is just terrible while it's hardly strong enough in straight up fights to make up for that. Ofcourse someone will say Goody or whatever is doing fine with it but that's simply not true either, there is no top T that mechs consistently with success
You got something wrong there. I watcheda lot of Goodys games and his strat is not the reason he loses so often - it's clearly his mechanics. Just watch his games, his lack of multitasking is baffling at times, his unit control often nonexistant. You often see some single hellions in mineral lines firing at pylons for about 30seconds, unsieged, clumped tanks and queues about 3 tanks at times.
If he played his strat with korean mechanics, he would be pretty damn good. Also, as far as i know he rarely varies his composition to the point that he has many ghosts agaisnt immortals.
|
If the toss is using the blink to stop you from attacking him, leave behind a good number of tanks (5ish? Idk, need more specifics to give a better answer) with a turret ring, maybe a bunker with some rines you made early game.
Replays would be really good to have...
EDIT- Totally didn't the replay earlier in the thread, so I watched it...and you didn't lose because of stalkers fucking up your shit, you lost because you fucked your own shit up. Your build made very little sense and you had entirely too much money, didn't get factories out quick enough and didn't micro engagements as well as you could have.
http://replayfu.com/download/XHddbs
That is a replay from GoOdy against Mana not too long ago, about 3 weeks or so, he does a pressure opening that allows him to expand pretty quick and he gets his factories up pretty fast as well. Take note though, Mana didn't respect goody's panzers and thought he would just be able to win a straight up fight...that was not the case. So while there is very little harassment from the protoss in this game, you can still lean a lot from the opening stages.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
