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On March 09 2012 00:08 ricecake wrote:
In TvT, is marine-marauder-medivac still viable?
In TvT, if I am marine-tank how do I break a turtled enemy going [mech / marine-tank / bio-tank]?
I find playing bio vs a mech based style you have to be much more mobile and aggressive by trying to drop constantly and when it comes to big engagements later on make sure you have a few ghosts in your army, with 3-4 Ghost academies for nukes to force him to unseige all of his tanks, stim in and and pick off chunks of his army. As the bio player you can re-max faster than a mech player so if you continue picking off small parts of his army you eventually win.
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TvP, if the protoss is going chargelot-collossus-pheonix, what composition should I be using? Should I go all the way up to four starports on three base? I played someone who made ~15 pheonix, 5 collossus, and I didn't have enough vikings. The pheonix also cleaned up drops. What should I be maxing out on primarily? Do I need an absurd amount (~30) of vikings?
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On March 09 2012 00:05 Cantro wrote:How are you guys dealing with this 2-2 ling into infestor ultra build going around. I cant seem it beat it 
You are not alone. 14 minute hive into ultralisks/ling/bane/infestor is a real thorn in my side in TvZ.
Even if you can somewhat deal with that you've got to worry about the inevitable broodlord switch. Drops, which are the typical response to infestor based play, don't even seem to work that well when the zerg puts 5 spines at every base.
Have you tried playing mech at all? I've started playing around with it at the mid/high masters level with some success, (lost 1 of my last 5 TvZs with it). It's a lot of fun and seems to have a stronger late game transition, (viking, raven, thor, siege tanks, hellions) than marine tank medivac since the ghost nerf. Obviously you can bypass the whole ling/infestor problem since the zerg's going to be forced to build roaches.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:08 Steak_ wrote:
TvP, if the protoss is going chargelot-collossus-pheonix, what composition should I be using? Should I go all the way up to four starports on three base? I played someone who made ~15 pheonix, 5 collossus, and I didn't have enough vikings. The pheonix also cleaned up drops. What should I be maxing out on primarily? Do I need an absurd amount (~30) of vikings?
If a guy's got 60 food of phoenixes and Colossi, 60 food of vikings might not be too unreasonable. That being said, It almost seems like you could just go with an enormous ground army and crush him since he's got 30 food in the air instead of tanking for his Colossi.
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On March 09 2012 01:08 Steak_ wrote:
TvP, if the protoss is going chargelot-collossus-pheonix, what composition should I be using? Should I go all the way up to four starports on three base? I played someone who made ~15 pheonix, 5 collossus, and I didn't have enough vikings. The pheonix also cleaned up drops. What should I be maxing out on primarily? Do I need an absurd amount (~30) of vikings?
I feel like the best way to play against colossus/phoenix is constant aggression. If you attack at the standard 2 medivac timing, he should have 1 colossus at most and needs to bring back the phoenixes to defend, you might be able to snipe them which puts him back to square one. As long as you keep the army sizes small, phoenix/colossus is pretty damn weak compared to pretty much any protoss unit comp. Its obviously never a good idea to drop against a protoss going phoenix.
If you somehow fail all your attacks and the protoss is allowed to get up a maxed phoenix/colossus army, then yeah you will need a shitload of vikings. Just sacrifice them and FF colossi while kiting with your bio, you should win no problem. Phoenix/zealot is not terribly efficient against mass bio.
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Hi,
i have a feeling, that almost every gold toss is going to tech to imo, colo and storm.
So far, i'm not able to play bio with ghost and raven. My mechanics simple aren't that good.
I have the general idea about how to use it, like scanning the army and try to place a good emp at important casters/supporters. But i mess something up everytime it comes down to an engagement with ghosts. And that's gg.
I know i realy should try to handle my units better, but it comes down so rarely to a lategame fight.
So what i should focus on, in the stages of game, before ghosts come into play?
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What do you guys think about a 2 rax (maybe 11/11) on maps where you can build a wall with 3 bunker and after this transition into mech?
maybe double hellion+cloak banshee or dircectly thor+bf hellion
i meant TvZ and just the 2 Rax on maps like CloudKingdom and Shakura's Plateau because you can easily build a wall of bunkers at their natural.
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Can anyone here help me with my Terran versus Protoss?
I generally always open with a one barracks gasless expand and tech up into medivacs getting +1 at the same time then take a reasonably times third base at ~10:00 then add a second engineering bay.
Replay: Shattered Temple (1)
Can somebody point out where I'm making mistakes / wrong decisions, as I feel like I'm ahead all game keeping up with my upgrades, maxed out 60 supply before him and was on 7 orbitals by 19 minutes, decided to attack when maxed but decided to turn back instead of attacking as I felt I would loose despite being 45 supply up due to thinking I didn't have enough vikings to deal with his army composition.
Should I have just engaged when I was so far ahead in supply when I was maxed, though I would mainly put my loss on not having enough ghosts when we did eventually engage.
Should I have just engaged when I was so far ahead in supply when I was maxed?
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Jangeru, I would just play a more aggressive style if I was you. With your build the standard time to look for attack opportunities is when your first medivacs pop. Instead of getting a 3rd CC while still on 3rax, consider going 5rax and applying more pressure with them. A typical attack would be to do a double medivac drop into his main, and once he sends his army to defend you run in with the rest of your army and snipe his 2nd or 3rd base. Alternatively you can also wait for more medivacs and drop multiple bases at once while trying to max at home. Remember that a protoss needs much more supply to kill a well-microed drop, and use this to your advantage. Get creative with drops and really put his multi-tasking to the test.
The point is to put pressure on the protoss, because letting the protoss safely max out on his favorite composition is what every protoss player wants to do. However if you want to play a more passive style, I would mostly look at your SCV numbers. First of all you go to 80 SCVs, which is way too much imo. A passive TvP game relies on getting the bigger army so you can get a decisive victory and deal damage after the big battle. You sac some SCVs later on, but are still at 60 SCVs which is still too much! Meanwhile you have half of your macro orbitals sitting at full energy, and are barely muling at all. You don't really win any decisive battles and in the last fight you have 4 ghosts against 12ish archons, obviously an unwinnable situation.
If I'm forced to play passive against protoss (which I hate) I generally make about 60 SCVs at first. Once I have that many macro orbitals up, I drop that number as low as 30 or so. With the extra supply I get mostly more ghosts and vikings, so that I can deal with the more dangerous splash damage units of the protoss army. Get a few extra nuke silos and start dropping and nuking his mining locations, and hope that once the big battle comes the bigger army and extra vikings/EMPs can win me the game.
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Does anyone have suggestions for dealing with reactor hellion drops TvT? I typically scan around 6:10 and often see this coming, but it always does some damage. I open 1 rax CC into 3 rax, I dont have enough marines to cover every entrance for the dropship. Is there a good way to punish this build if you see it coming? (diamond level)
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Concussive Shell Marauders?
As the iEcho build was modern, a few marauders left near minderal lines worked wonders
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Man, if your not watching make sure you watch the IPL Team league Grand finals Jjaki vs CreatorPrime. Obnoxius play this guy makes TvP look late game favored for Terran. Its ridiclous how powerful bio is at the high level, yet so underpowered at Master level and lower.
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Hi I kinda need help analyzing this replay, I thought I did a lot of drone damage in the beginning, but then his economy spiralled out of control, and I couldn't do anything. It felt like this guy was wayyyy better than me, for reference I'm playing at a platinum level. But this guy just totally crushed me, it wasn't even close. I don't know how I could've stopped him at all.
Here's the replay:
http://drop.sc/128949
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Mech questions
1. When playing mech, it is common to wait until 200 then attack right?
2. Hellions and banshees are the only 2 choices a meching player can harass with?
3. Does every single mech game have to go long macro 30min+?
4. lastly, Do I have to make PF and turrets everywhere? I hate that....
Thanks guys!
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On March 09 2012 01:29 Absentia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 00:05 Cantro wrote:How are you guys dealing with this 2-2 ling into infestor ultra build going around. I cant seem it beat it You are not alone. 14 minute hive into ultralisks/ling/bane/infestor is a real thorn in my side in TvZ. Even if you can somewhat deal with that you've got to worry about the inevitable broodlord switch. Drops, which are the typical response to infestor based play, don't even seem to work that well when the zerg puts 5 spines at every base. Have you tried playing mech at all? I've started playing around with it at the mid/high masters level with some success, (lost 1 of my last 5 TvZs with it). It's a lot of fun and seems to have a stronger late game transition, (viking, raven, thor, siege tanks, hellions) than marine tank medivac since the ghost nerf. Obviously you can bypass the whole ling/infestor problem since the zerg's going to be forced to build roaches.
Hey,
yeah this style is pretty common right now and now so easy to deal with.. if ultras come out into marine tank, they are just endless cost efficient. There was little talk about this also today on the IEM stream with idra commentation (just some words to this matter) and im trying out Banshees, especially with cloak against those openings. Without mutas banshees are a pain in the ass if you infestors are not yet out. so i'll try FE into 1/1/1 and a few cloaked banshees i guess. Also pretty safe against roach plays obviously.
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TvP Proxy Gate Question!
What happens to me relatively often is a lowground pylon on Cloud Kingdom into 2 Proxy Gate Attempt.
How do i deal with this cos efficient? If i pull SCVs and have them kill the Gate, i loose soooo much mining and the toss often times just cancels in the last secons and laughs as i am super far behind right now. (6-7 SCVs not minig for a minute in the starting time).
Should i let one Gate go up and fend off with few mariens + SCVs?
If he gets two GWs building, i still should not pull SCVs right? They wont destroy it fast enough unless i pull every single one and then i can also leave right here as he just cancels, expands and laughs again.
I feel like no Matter what Toss does, its super cost efficient to put a proxy gate up...
how do you deal with it the most efficient way adn come out ahead? He cheesed me and got hopefully nothign out of it so i have to be logically ahead if i fend it off right?
Thanks.
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I don't think it's worthwhile to attack a building Gateway with SCVs.
The very first match I played this season was a Protoss doing a proxy 2-gate with lowground pylon on Korhal Compound, where it also works well. I scouted it as the first gate was being built. I constructed a bunker near my mineral line and added more rax. The bunker doesn't cover the entire base and the zealots can walk around. So it takes some micro, chasing zealots with marines, forcing them to turn around and then retreating to the bunker.
If you can protect the SCV making the first bunker, you should be in good shape once it goes up.
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On March 09 2012 22:24 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Mech questions
1. When playing mech, it is common to wait until 200 then attack right?
2. Hellions and banshees are the only 2 choices a meching player can harass with?
3. Does every single mech game have to go long macro 30min+?
4. lastly, Do I have to make PF and turrets everywhere? I hate that....
Thanks guys!
1. Depends how much Damage you do. If your BF Hellions or Banshees kill tons of eco, which happens quite often, then you should absolutely not wait until 200/200 but hit a big timing where hes vulnerable. If you dont do game-ending harass damage you should turtle until you have a good army going and your base is secured so that you can move out (turrets/sensor) because you cannot really walk back fast. So this would typically be 150-200 supply yes, but your harass has to go on the whole game long, you cannot just sit back the whole game normally or any good player has way more bases and just overruns you with more than 1 unit wave.
2. mostly yes, in some situations you can auto turret harrass :D, dont forget to incorperate drops to the hellions.
3. i feel like sometimes you end it with hellions cause no eco is left and you do game-ending dmg eraly on, or you have to turtle until you get so a strong timing or maxed point, which is about 15-20 minutes. But this slow mech style calls for longer games, dont play it if you hate that 
4 Depends again on what you face... normallyl if your bases are not in your direkt main range, yes you have to to cover ling runbys, marine drops or muta harrass (turrets mostly in TvZ).
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On March 09 2012 22:43 Rannasha wrote:
I don't think it's worthwhile to attack a building Gateway with SCVs.
The very first match I played this season was a Protoss doing a proxy 2-gate with lowground pylon on Korhal Compound, where it also works well. I scouted it as the first gate was being built. I constructed a bunker near my mineral line and added more rax. The bunker doesn't cover the entire base and the zealots can walk around. So it takes some micro, chasing zealots with marines, forcing them to turn around and then retreating to the bunker.
If you can protect the SCV making the first bunker, you should be in good shape once it goes up.
Ye i defended some proxy Gates this way, but chronoed zealots come out so fast >_>... you need realyl godo marine micro to be const efficient i think.
What i saw yesterday was proxy gate directly into nexus, into forge and cannon defense, so no initial counter possible into some wierd tons of GW timing >_>.... so hard to come out ahead, i dealt with it and then went directly for a 3rd CC, but i guess somethign else went wrong there...
the key for me is not to attack the gate with any SCVs in my future matchups and just throw down another rax and maybe a bunker if its 2 proxy gates. thx!
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On March 09 2012 00:08 ricecake wrote:
In TvT, is marine-marauder-medivac still viable?
In TvT, if I am marine-tank how do I break a turtled enemy going [mech / marine-tank / bio-tank]?
I soley play either marine tank, or marine marauder in TvT and do decently. Bio is indeed fun to play, and many top T still do it.
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EPT
