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Whalecore
Norway1111 Posts
When doing a 2gas 3gate into robo in PvP (robo goes down on 30 after first warp in of 3 stalkers), how many chronoboost is used on the nexus? 2 or 3? If I use 3 on nexus I die to a 1 gas 4gate, or is it possible to defend? Also, unit production out of my gate goes like this: Stalker -> sentry -> stalker.. is this optimal? And should I chrono the first stalker or not? | ||
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pezzaperry
142 Posts
In PvT I've always opened for fast collosus, but I really want to change that playstyle because on some maps (shakuras for example) I don't feel like it's that strong. I would rather go into templar or archon chargelot play. Are there any Master Protoss players out there who use this style? How can you be safe against early pressure while teching to it, I feel like I would just outright die if they catch me before say storm is researched, or the templar archives has built. Do you still get a robo for observers? Are storm drops viable? Replays would be MUCH appreciated, either from master players themselves or from high level professionals. Thanks a bunch! EDIT: Another question: When going FFE as protoss, how do you scout a baneling bust or a roach all in? I'm having trouble against these, if I can sneak a probe into the natural I can generally get info, but most of the time I do a full wall-in and my scouting probe may die. How should I react to a speedling expand vs FFE? Should I throw up 2 additional cannons? | ||
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samthesaluki
914 Posts
1) no matter what i cant beat terran i just played a game owned his army killed his expo was so far ahead then just got stomped. http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z97/SKChaos/terranOP.png 2) also in P v P we go same builds i have like double his army and lose like wtf. http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z97/SKChaos/ANNOYING.jpg 3) P v Z either ling rush or hold that and get roach ling all-in cant hold it. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On September 23 2011 19:23 Geiko wrote: Definitely will. Just got my computer back but forgot my mouse though  So I have this shitty wireless mouse but we can still do some tests. You can add me : geiko.813.However from what I read, your build looks more like a defensive 3 gate that squeezes in a robo, but you don't actually use the robo to defend the 4 gate right ? Regarding the builds, well it's hard to answer without listing all of the possibilities. The decision making in PvP happens before the observer timing, that's not saying that you can't get valuable information with your observer, just that you might already be in a BO loss situation when your observer reaches his base. Expand builds come to mind for example against a obs first robo build. Yeah that about sums it up, I get enough units to deny pylons under my ramp while making a robo. The reason I like it because it doesn't get some crazy late tech like most defensive builds I have seen. I'll be adding you when I get online. On September 23 2011 21:09 Whalecore wrote: Chronoboost questions! When doing a 2gas 3gate into robo in PvP (robo goes down on 30 after first warp in of 3 stalkers), how many chronoboost is used on the nexus? 2 or 3? If I use 3 on nexus I die to a 1 gas 4gate, or is it possible to defend? Also, unit production out of my gate goes like this: Stalker -> sentry -> stalker.. is this optimal? And should I chrono the first stalker or not? I don't really feel like you can chronoboost your nexus three times if you are not planning on turtling with cannons or sentries. However it's fine if you chronoboost out more probes after you have scouted your opponent not going 4gate. It will delay your tech though. The order you get units in largely depends on your build. If you get 2 gas early I think stalker -> sentry -> something works but you will have to get more stalkers or zealots if you are rushing for tech. And about the stalker, do you need to deny scouting or want to chase the probe away? I use a chronoboost on the stalker my self to get out zealot stalker stalker sentry before WG finshes. On September 23 2011 21:32 pezzaperry wrote: Masters Protoss here In PvT I've always opened for fast collosus, but I really want to change that playstyle because on some maps (shakuras for example) I don't feel like it's that strong. I would rather go into templar or archon chargelot play. Are there any Master Protoss players out there who use this style? How can you be safe against early pressure while teching to it, I feel like I would just outright die if they catch me before say storm is researched, or the templar archives has built. Do you still get a robo for observers? Are storm drops viable? Replays would be MUCH appreciated, either from master players themselves or from high level professionals. Thanks a bunch! EDIT: Another question: When going FFE as protoss, how do you scout a baneling bust or a roach all in? I'm having trouble against these, if I can sneak a probe into the natural I can generally get info, but most of the time I do a full wall-in and my scouting probe may die. How should I react to a speedling expand vs FFE? Should I throw up 2 additional cannons? I never go colossi but rather double forge. You can sacrifice one forge in favor of faster HTs if you want to. In my opinion it's a bit of a risky timing for you before charge or storm finishes but with enough gateways you should be perfectly safe. As HTs are very gas heavy the robo is quite an investment and I don't think it's beneficial to get it before you have three bases up an running. Storm drops are really good but it's a bit expensive if you lose it. Personally I do storm drops when I think the units I have will keep me safe from any pushes or harassment. Sorry no replays, I have been doing only all ins lately  As for your other question you have to scout their gas. If they mine more than 100 gas it is for zergling speed. However sometimes they like to trick you so it might be a good idea to scout for their expansion or try sneaking into their main again to see the gas or any additional tech. A good tip for scouting is sneaking out more probes than your first one. For example you can scout with your first probe in their main until it dies and hide a second in the zerg's third or something for later use. A speedling expand isn't dangerous at all for you unless you leave a gap in the wall where the lings can get in. On September 23 2011 21:39 samthesaluki wrote: please help GOLD P here about to be demoted losing to silvers 1) no matter what i cant beat terran i just played a game owned his army killed his expo was so far ahead then just got stomped. http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z97/SKChaos/terranOP.png 2) also in P v P we go same builds i have like double his army and lose like wtf. http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z97/SKChaos/ANNOYING.jpg 3) P v Z either ling rush or hold that and get roach ling all-in cant hold it. It's really hard to see from these pictures alone, it would be better if you posted replays or tell us how you lose. From the graphs it looks like either your army composition is bad or you need to work on your positioning and micro management. As for PvZ, what do you mean with ling rush? 6pool? A roach ling all in is normally defended off of 3-4 gateways and with a cannon or two. It's pretty easy if you have enough stalkers and forcefields, but never go outside your wall or speedlings will kill you. | ||
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OskO
Argentina369 Posts
On September 23 2011 14:18 CecilSunkure wrote: You still have me added right? I'll play some games against a Diamond opponent around your skill level and get you a replay or two. I'd like to see those replays too :D I'm a mid Diamond lvl Protoss and I'm way out of shape due to my lack of time to play the past month. I'd like to know wich openers are recommended to play as a standard for each matchup with the current metagame, so I can start training asap.  | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On September 23 2011 22:21 OskO wrote: I'd like to see those replays too :D I'm a mid Diamond lvl Protoss and I'm way out of shape due to my lack of time to play the past month. I'd like to know wich openers are recommended to play as a standard for each matchup with the current metagame, so I can start training asap. I suggest you 1gate expand in PvT and PvZ while doing one of the safe builds for PvP, I think 4kmonk has a thread where he listed most of them. | ||
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Geiko
France2034 Posts
On September 23 2011 22:34 Latedi wrote: I suggest you 1gate expand in PvT and PvZ while doing one of the safe builds for PvP, I think 4kmonk has a thread where he listed most of them. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266786 | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On September 23 2011 22:55 Geiko wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266786 This thread is so dope, I highly recommend it! | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On September 23 2011 22:34 Latedi wrote: I suggest you 1gate expand in PvT and PvZ while doing one of the safe builds for PvP, I think 4kmonk has a thread where he listed most of them. If you're a bit out of shape I think PvZ 1 gate expand could be a bit difficult to execute. I would suggest a safe 3 Gate Expand (on maps where you cannot FFE) or a 2 Gate - Stargate opening if you are not confident in your forcefield micro to hold off Roach-Ling aggression. If they blindly make lings to pressure your expo, 1 Gate Expand can die without perfect micro. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On September 24 2011 00:25 QTIP. wrote: If you're a bit out of shape I think PvZ 1 gate expand could be a bit difficult to execute. I would suggest a safe 3 Gate Expand (on maps where you cannot FFE) or a 2 Gate - Stargate opening if you are not confident in your forcefield micro to hold off Roach-Ling aggression. If they blindly make lings to pressure your expo, 1 Gate Expand can die without perfect micro. Hmm yeah that makes sense. But just don't think 3gate expand is a good build anymore, it's way to risky and you may fall behind economically or lose your army if your pressure goes wrong. The 2gate stargate is pretty nice though. | ||
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Teodice
Sweden641 Posts
I´ve just came back from a pretty neat pause from gaming and currently looking for some useful BO´s that´s popular nowadays. Im looking for games that you recommend watching now when the patch has been released. They can still be pre-patch, they should just be viable. So if you got any useful links to maybe a PvT for example then just hand it to me! They should not be cheese thou. I would like to have macro-oriented playstyles! Cheers | ||
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
On September 24 2011 03:36 Latedi wrote: Hmm yeah that makes sense. But just don't think 3gate expand is a good build anymore, it's way to risky and you may fall behind economically or lose your army if your pressure goes wrong. The 2gate stargate is pretty nice though. The 3g expand is still a good build, you can't even talk about risk when you compare it to the FFE (more vulnerable to early game cheese) and in no way does it leave you 'behind economically'. You could do a 1g expand and transition into the 3g, or you could use the newer optimized 2g expand if you feel the sacrifice for safety is going to leave you 'behind'. Early survival is more off positioning rather then micro, how well your structures are placed, how your units are positioned to reduce surface area, and how effective your force fields are. | ||
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k3m4
Germany94 Posts
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phyren
United States1067 Posts
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Swad1000
United States366 Posts
On September 24 2011 08:14 k3m4 wrote: Im searching for a 3 gate robo build thats safe against 4 gate, blink all-ins and all those aggressive styles and especially i'd like to know how to respond correctly to what you scout. Something like: if you scout fast 2nd gas and no energy on nexus you can get 1-gate robo or even nexus. I know about the compilation of anti 4 gate builds thread but the builds there only work when your opponent is 4-gating and if he isnt you r behind, so the most important thing would be how to change up the build to always be maximum greedy without dying. The Day9/Liquid Tyler PvP 1 gate robo build is a strong build if you really want to go robo every game. A strong timing off of 1 base robo is something like 3 immortals and 2 colossus with 4 gates warping in at your opponents front. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=238165 Naniwa had a strong pvp robo build during Homestory Cup 3 but I never bothered to go back and rewatch him play with it. | ||
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13430 I tried to get my third up while teching to templars but it doesn't exactly work lol. What should I have been doing? 20+ mutas are really scary | ||
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Ranir
413 Posts
On September 24 2011 08:53 blagoonga123 wrote: I lost to muta ling three times in a row last night and I'm not exactly sure how to respond http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13430 I tried to get my third up while teching to templars but it doesn't exactly work lol. What should I have been doing? 20+ mutas are really scary Top 5master protoss here, the counter to mutas in PvZ is 6g as you you hit normally before mutas are out. After that you don't want to go for double stargate as the zerg can just tech switch a lot easier than protoss just because of how larva mechanic works. If you can't do that, try to turtle on 3 bases and get archons stalkers sentries to deal with it. Even if the zerg will get pretty much every expands on the map, if you sit on 3 bases you should be fine. I've done as well a nice blink play into his main because the zerg had like 15 spine in front of his base so I got a fast blink + hallucination on 2 bases and I dropped like 5-7 canons at my natural to deal with the lings/mutas counter so I was ahead after. | ||
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Swad1000
United States366 Posts
On September 24 2011 08:53 blagoonga123 wrote: I lost to muta ling three times in a row last night and I'm not exactly sure how to respond http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13430 I tried to get my third up while teching to templars but it doesn't exactly work lol. What should I have been doing? 20+ mutas are really scary Typhon is a bad map because of how hard it is to manuever for protoss and how open the expansions are. Get hallucinate faster if you do a 3 gate expand without stargate. You could have done more pressure early on and getting robo+bay blindly was a costly investment. Wait to scout out the zerg before throwing down the bay atleast because you need all the gas you can get for templar/storm. If you open stargate and scout the spire you can do double phoenix to punish the zerg for going mutas. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
Does anyone with VOD access to GSTL feel like pulling + Show Spoiler + Tails' build vs MVP last night? Sounds like fast 2 stalker pressure into FE into holding cloakshee 1-1-1. Looked like a really interesting idea. | ||
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dLKnighT
Canada735 Posts
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