EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 68
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Catchafire2000
United States227 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On September 25 2011 06:54 Catchafire2000 wrote: Thanks for the tips... Any idea how to counter infestor/ultralisks? I tried VRs, but they got neuraled... Not even funny :/ My favorite unit composition is HT immortal stalker. Then adding some sentries for guardian shield, zealots against ultralisks or a lot of lings and archons if you can afford them. The immortals will just rip apart the ultras ^^ Also void rays is possible but you will have to spread them out a bit so they dont get chain fungald to death. Edit: It should be pretty obvious but I'll write it anyways. The role of the HTs here is mainly to feedback the infestors and throw a few storms if there are lings in the mix. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13405 Posts
Staying on gateway units until my 3rd is really helping pvz - 2 forge on my 3rd expo and then using warp prism and some dts to harass. PvT I never really had too many problems with and the link to the geiko 3 gate and the surrounding talk these few days has helped me tons too. I started playing masters players again today so thanks to all :D (one pvz game had me crawl back from a baneling aggression and another had me lose my whole army to ultra/infestor to which i responded by killing his 3rd and 4th and making a lot of immortals, zealots and some archons/HTs for storm) On September 25 2011 06:29 Latedi wrote: Hmm yeah that DT tech on 2 bases is pretty interesting, I'm not to good with using it but it gives you more archons. DT drops is also really fun to do I have been doing it a few times. Terran's are, like you say, not very fond of making more than 1 turret. Also the attack i mentioned is not a drop, its marine marauder produced from 3rax which attacks when the first 2 medivacs are done. This is a pretty strong terran timing but ghosts will be late. Defending this push with DTs might be worth a shot  I see the medivac attack timing! I know that one. well Ive held it with dts before since they scan then they either continue to save scans or they run home because they have no detection. I usually target marines since the DTs can kill them in one swipe whereas if they have marauders, the medivacs heal them enough that it takes one dt too long to kill one before they scan whereas you can often get 2 or 3 marines if they aren't paying attention to their army and see the blur - or you kill a bunch of them because there is no scan. If you have a prism up (depends on how greedy you are and the map size for their attack) you can always hurt the mineral line while they try to attack you. Running by with DTs if i dont have the prism is something i do a lot if theres a ramp to my natural like on tal darim or on shakuras. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On September 25 2011 11:01 ZeromuS wrote: Just want to thank everyone who has helped me over the week with my questions. I have successfully made it from rank 24 diamond to rank 3 at the moment in one day and went 18 wins 8 losses for today. Staying on gateway units until my 3rd is really helping pvz - 2 forge on my 3rd expo and then using warp prism and some dts to harass. PvT I never really had too many problems with and the link to the geiko 3 gate and the surrounding talk these few days has helped me tons too. I started playing masters players again today so thanks to all :D (one pvz game had me crawl back from a baneling aggression and another had me lose my whole army to ultra/infestor to which i responded by killing his 3rd and 4th and making a lot of immortals, zealots and some archons/HTs for storm) This is nice to hear ^^ Good job on improving. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On September 25 2011 06:54 Catchafire2000 wrote: Thanks for the tips... Any idea how to counter infestor/ultralisks? I tried VRs, but they got neuraled... Not even funny :/ You shouldn't go about countering one or two units with a certain amount of units. You should have a nice solid mix of units that work together, otherwise you can get straight countered by your opponent. Colossi/stalker/chargelot/archon/voidray is a common end-game mixture, and if you are even or up on upgrades, you should be able to win. Pull back after you lose your zealots, as your stalkers will die to FG+ ultras. Try to target the infestors with your colossi, and then you can just run from ultras. Assuming they have ultra+ling+infestor, if you're up on upgrades, archons and chargelots are the way to go. Make void rays with spare money in case of a broodlord tech switch, but you have to keep the infestor count low. HT and colossi kill infestors VERY quickly. | ||
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FederigoEU
Germany50 Posts
i am a low diamond player , who did not play for the past three months because of studies and other things , and now i would like to go back to Starcraft and i wanted to ask if someone could link some BO´s that i could use to come back into the game safe and "easy". In PvP I like to use a fast 5 Stalker WG attack , in PvZ I will try out the Style of play HerO showed us at Dreamhack , but in PvT i am completly unsure of what to do right now :O . Should i opt for a 1-1-1 defence or is this out od date due to 1.4 ? awesome thread , will read through it :D | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On September 25 2011 16:53 FederigoEU wrote: hello , i am a low diamond player , who did not play for the past three months because of studies and other things , and now i would like to go back to Starcraft and i wanted to ask if someone could link some BO´s that i could use to come back into the game safe and "easy". In PvP I like to use a fast 5 Stalker WG attack , in PvZ I will try out the Style of play HerO showed us at Dreamhack , but in PvT i am completly unsure of what to do right now :O . Should i opt for a 1-1-1 defence or is this out od date due to 1.4 ? awesome thread , will read through it :D You seem to know what to do in PvP and PvZ so I will keep to PvT. 1-1-1 is currently a very popular build but if you blind counter it every game by staying on one base you will be far behind when someone does another opener or just plays standard. Luckily the best counter to a 1-1-1 is to fast expand and this is also standard play. 1gate expand would be the safest FE but there are also others you can do on other positions. 1gate FE: 9 pylon 13 gate 14 gas 16 pylon @100% gate - cybernetics core @100 minerals - zealot @100% cybernetics core - stalker, warpgate research 23-25 pylon @100% stalker - stalker 30-31 nexus You then add 2-3 gates depending on the amount of aggression the terran throws at you. If you scout a FE you can make another pylon before you add gates. There's also another FE where you get the second gas instead of the zealot and then make stalker sentry sentry out of the gateway. Here's a link to HuK's 20food FE. It's really good on larger maps such as tal darim altar etc. Nexus first is also viable but pretty risky with the ladder mappool. | ||
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FederigoEU
Germany50 Posts
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Chelch
United Kingdom159 Posts
I have the building placement for a FFE down for every ladder map except Typhon Peaks, so I have that thumbed down, but I don't understand how to follow up my forge FE. I struggle against everything Zerg players do, from taking a fast third base, to staying on two bases and teching, it all confuses me. I just don't know what to do and how to respond. Does anyone have a suggestion of a general build I should be using as a follow up to FFE, and any replays they could point me towards to help me? Just as a notice, I'm only in Diamond, I think my PvP and PvT aren't really issues, but I really really struggle in PvZ  , I just feel totally lost as to what I should be doing in this MU | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On September 25 2011 11:01 ZeromuS wrote: Just want to thank everyone who has helped me over the week with my questions. I have successfully made it from rank 24 diamond to rank 3 at the moment in one day and went 18 wins 8 losses for today. Staying on gateway units until my 3rd is really helping pvz - 2 forge on my 3rd expo and then using warp prism and some dts to harass. PvT I never really had too many problems with and the link to the geiko 3 gate and the surrounding talk these few days has helped me tons too. I started playing masters players again today so thanks to all :D (one pvz game had me crawl back from a baneling aggression and another had me lose my whole army to ultra/infestor to which i responded by killing his 3rd and 4th and making a lot of immortals, zealots and some archons/HTs for storm) I see the medivac attack timing! I know that one. well Ive held it with dts before since they scan then they either continue to save scans or they run home because they have no detection. I usually target marines since the DTs can kill them in one swipe whereas if they have marauders, the medivacs heal them enough that it takes one dt too long to kill one before they scan whereas you can often get 2 or 3 marines if they aren't paying attention to their army and see the blur - or you kill a bunch of them because there is no scan. If you have a prism up (depends on how greedy you are and the map size for their attack) you can always hurt the mineral line while they try to attack you. Running by with DTs if i dont have the prism is something i do a lot if theres a ramp to my natural like on tal darim or on shakuras. Has your PvP gotten any better? :D | ||
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Catchafire2000
United States227 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On September 26 2011 00:36 Chelch wrote: Hey, so this is a horribly general question, but what do I do in PvZ? I have the building placement for a FFE down for every ladder map except Typhon Peaks, so I have that thumbed down, but I don't understand how to follow up my forge FE. I struggle against everything Zerg players do, from taking a fast third base, to staying on two bases and teching, it all confuses me. I just don't know what to do and how to respond. Does anyone have a suggestion of a general build I should be using as a follow up to FFE, and any replays they could point me towards to help me? Just as a notice, I'm only in Diamond, I think my PvP and PvT aren't really issues, but I really really struggle in PvZ , I just feel totally lost as to what I should be doing in this MUOoh that's pretty good for being clueless about a matchup, I feel the same sometimes though. The most important thing after forge FE is scouting. You have to know if a 1base all in, 2base all in/tech or fast third base is coming. 1base all in is usually scouted if you see more than 100gas being mined from a 14/14 pool/gas opener. Then you have to scout the zerg's third at around 6 minutes with a hidden probe or a scouting zealot, if you see nothing make a pylon to see if the hatch goes up and suicide into his main, trying to get any information you can about a roach ling all in or mutas coming etc. If the zerg is teching so should you, or go for a fast push to kill him before tech is out. If the zerg is taking a fast third, which is the most standard response, you should either pressure him or take a quick third of your own. Most players like to pressure the zerg and this can be done in many ways, stargate being the most popular, and effective in my opinion. You can also go DTs but they are shut down pretty easily. For all ins +1 6gate or +2 7gate blink are pretty strong. If you want to take a quick third as well the safest would be to do it off of 5 gates and a robo I think, using cannons to defend your third while getting more gates, probes, upgrades and AoE units. You should be able to react in the right way to his tech if you do this by getting observers. TL;DR Scout a lot. If zerg all ins you make cannons and sentries. If zerg techs on 2 bases you all in or tech up on 2 bases. If zerg takes a fast third you all in, pressure or take a quick third yourself. On September 26 2011 02:11 Catchafire2000 wrote: I've no clue how to play against Zerg... or any other races for that matter... You might want to give more information about your problem or it would be hard to help you. If you have no clue at all, try watching pro games and copy what they do. | ||
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Chelch
United Kingdom159 Posts
On September 26 2011 04:03 Latedi wrote: Ooh that's pretty good for being clueless about a matchup, I feel the same sometimes though. The most important thing after forge FE is scouting. You have to know if a 1base all in, 2base all in/tech or fast third base is coming. 1base all in is usually scouted if you see more than 100gas being mined from a 14/14 pool/gas opener. Then you have to scout the zerg's third at around 6 minutes with a hidden probe or a scouting zealot, if you see nothing make a pylon to see if the hatch goes up and suicide into his main, trying to get any information you can about a roach ling all in or mutas coming etc. If the zerg is teching so should you, or go for a fast push to kill him before tech is out. If the zerg is taking a fast third, which is the most standard response, you should either pressure him or take a quick third of your own. Most players like to pressure the zerg and this can be done in many ways, stargate being the most popular, and effective in my opinion. You can also go DTs but they are shut down pretty easily. For all ins +1 6gate or +2 7gate blink are pretty strong. If you want to take a quick third as well the safest would be to do it off of 5 gates and a robo I think, using cannons to defend your third while getting more gates, probes, upgrades and AoE units. You should be able to react in the right way to his tech if you do this by getting observers. TL;DR Scout a lot. If zerg all ins you make cannons and sentries. If zerg techs on 2 bases you all in or tech up on 2 bases. If zerg takes a fast third you all in, pressure or take a quick third yourself. Thats a lot of useful advice, thanks! I already knew about scouting a lot, although I'd been letting it slack really, because I didn't really know how best to respond to what I scouted I've been having a look through a LOT of PvZ replays over the weekend (probably around 20-30) but I havn't really found much to do with taking a third off 5 gates and a Robo, I was wondering if you know of any good replays, so that I can see how its done, or how somebody who knows what they are doing does it, would help a lot to see the timings and such ^^ | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On September 26 2011 04:48 Chelch wrote: Thats a lot of useful advice, thanks! I already knew about scouting a lot, although I'd been letting it slack really, because I didn't really know how best to respond to what I scouted I've been having a look through a LOT of PvZ replays over the weekend (probably around 20-30) but I havn't really found much to do with taking a third off 5 gates and a Robo, I was wondering if you know of any good replays, so that I can see how its done, or how somebody who knows what they are doing does it, would help a lot to see the timings and such ^^ Sorry I don't know about any replays, I'm going to practice with a team mate right now so maybe I can create some haha. | ||
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proerthantoss
United Kingdom16 Posts
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xlava
United States676 Posts
On September 26 2011 04:58 proerthantoss wrote: anyone got a good pvp opener? (im silver) i use to 4 gate but now it seems ineffective and i tried to 3 robo but lost to a 3gate mass zealot (i also lost to this when i 4 gated as well so it's not just my retarded 3robo) then i tried this zealot build and lost. it seems it's become common anyone got a good pvp opener that wont lose to it? Depending on what they're doing, I normally just do 3gate robo or 3gate TC. You could always go 1gate TC for faster tech but that's very risky. I've seen stargate builds work but only because of the transition to chargelot archon. | ||
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
Like many players, I like play to a style of Protoss where there's no point in the game where I have to attack. I don't mean I want to sit in my base all day, but relying on timing attacks just isn't fun for me. My issue is with the PvZ matchup. Let's say my opponent goes infestors, and I go coli. Let's also say I see a hive and a spire. If this happens, I know my goal is simply to build a critical mass of coli and attack before he gets broodlords. When this happens, if I've outplayed my opponent, I generally 1a through him if I can forcefield his infestors away. My specific issue is when I see Z going broodlords, there's no way for me to go "OK, I'm going to expand again and aim for this composition." If I attack and he's wasted money on brood tech before he actually gets them, I roll him. If I miss the attack timing, he rolls me. My question is does Protoss have an obtainable composition which can do battle with broodlords, or do I simply need to hit the right timing if he's going for them? | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
On September 26 2011 09:20 -_- wrote: I need some help. Like many players, I like play to a style of Protoss where there's no point in the game where I have to attack. I don't mean I want to sit in my base all day, but relying on timing attacks just isn't fun for me. My issue is with the PvZ matchup. Let's say my opponent goes infestors, and I go coli. Let's also say I see a hive and a spire. If this happens, I know my goal is simply to build a critical mass of coli and attack before he gets broodlords. When this happens, if I've outplayed my opponent, I generally 1a through him if I can forcefield his infestors away. My specific issue is when I see Z going broodlords, there's no way for me to go "OK, I'm going to expand again and aim for this composition." If I attack and he's wasted money on brood tech before he actually gets them, I roll him. If I miss the attack timing, he rolls me. My question is does Protoss have an obtainable composition which can do battle with broodlords, or do I simply need to hit the right timing if he's going for them? Unless you can overrun him with blink stalkers (Or just catch the noob out of position), you will need void rays. I (Mid-Masters) almost always get 1-2 stargates lategame stargates for voids because of broodlords. They are also good against ultras and roaches as well, which are some of Zerg's most commonly spammed unit lategame, so even if they don't happen to go for broodlords you will still be in a good position. Also, some additional ideas: -DT's, Blink Stalkers or warped in zealots to snipe greater spire as it is morphing (All quite situational, but if you manage to do this and Zerg already made corrupters you have a massive window to outright win the game). -If you want to do it without voids, you need High Templar to blanket storm all of Zerg's units and the broodlords, especially since Zergs will often reinforce with mass lings. -Zealots and Archons can plow through broodlings, giving your stalkers a meatshield behind which they can snipe the broodlords -Run. If you know you would lose the battle just avoid the slow broodlords, even if it means you lose your main. Keeping your buildings alive isn't as important as winning the game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On September 26 2011 09:57 Geovu wrote: Unless you can overrun him with blink stalkers (Or just catch the noob out of position), you will need void rays. I (Mid-Masters) almost always get 1-2 stargates lategame stargates for voids because of broodlords. They are also good against ultras and roaches as well, which are some of Zerg's most commonly spammed unit lategame, so even if they don't happen to go for broodlords you will still be in a good position. Also, some additional ideas: -DT's, Blink Stalkers or warped in zealots to snipe greater spire as it is morphing (All quite situational, but if you manage to do this and Zerg already made corrupters you have a massive window to outright win the game). -If you want to do it without voids, you need High Templar to blanket storm all of Zerg's units and the broodlords, especially since Zergs will often reinforce with mass lings. -Zealots and Archons can plow through broodlings, giving your stalkers a meatshield behind which they can snipe the broodlords -Run. If you know you would lose the battle just avoid the slow broodlords, even if it means you lose your main. Keeping your buildings alive isn't as important as winning the game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Pretty much this. However I also want to add that it is important to spread your void rays. It wouldn't be very beneficial if all your void rays got chain fungal'd and ended up only killing 2 brood lords. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
And by enough colossi, I mean 5+. Broodlords do dps, but with colossi support killing the roaches AND broodlings, you'll be able to blink under the BLs pretty quickly. You don't actually have to spread your VRs unless you have no other army... | ||
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