The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 69

On September 26 2011 13:39 eugalp wrote:
How aggressive should I be vs a zerg teching on 2 base? It seems that if he is going for quick mutas than its best to do some kind of timing push around 9min. However he could be teching to infestors (with mass infested terrans), in which case it appears to be better to turtle and tech to colossus or archon asap (please correct me if I'm wrong here). Obviously it is not that easy to scout exactly which tech building a zerg will put down after lair. Does anyone have any advice? (Assume I'm staring off with a FFE).

On September 26 2011 20:31 Latedi wrote:


There's really no way to scout before you have observers or hallucination out. So you have to pick an option. The safest is probably teching on 2 bases, you can be safe with any tech path as long as you have enough gateways. That's probably around 5-6 of them. The best way to scout is to count the number of spine crawlers, if you can scout that. Mutas are much more vulnerable to 6gate so he will have to get more spines if he wants to be safe. Obviously some players are going to play it risky and it's by no means a way to tell what he's doing for sure but If you see 8 spine crawlers you may want to get a twilight council or stargate before you get a robo.

On September 26 2011 21:11 Geiko wrote:


I usually deal with mutas with mass blink stalker play combined with cannons and turtling on 3 bases and eventually HT support.
I'm curious about the stargate option to defend versus mutas. Even with the phoenix construction time buff, it seems you can never get enough phoenixes to have a good answer to the mutas. And even when you do get enough of them, they are extremely vulnerale to infestor play. I don't think I've seen a single pro game where protoss player successfully deals with mutas by making phoenixes. Anyone have any thoughts on this ?

On September 26 2011 21:49 ZeromuS wrote:


How do you play against muta play like that on a map like nerazim? I feel the 3rd is so far away its hard to effectively split the army and defend each base easily. Should I be focused on having an army there while cannons warp in and then have less units when i get more cannons? Just delaying basically?

Then I guess you can pressure back with warp prisms if they make it out? or DTs or something?

On September 27 2011 00:05 Mikelius wrote:
I need some PvP help, since the new patch hit I feel a bit lost in the match up, before I usually went blink stalkers with moderate success, but now with the blink nerf and immortal buff I'm unsure as to what build to use and what transitions are open/viable, could anyone recommend some openers/builds that are relatively safe and encourage macro/normal play?

I'm mid level plat by the way.

On September 27 2011 01:07 mizU wrote:


I really like going for gate-robo-gate, but not on maps with short rush distances.

This allows you to get really fast immortals, and you can eventually harass with an observer.

I only use it when I scout cross positions or if it's a big map like TDA, because if they pressure with a zealot/stalker, you die.

On September 27 2011 01:09 Mikelius wrote:


And do go for Colossus, a ton of immortals with blink or what?

On September 27 2011 01:14 mizU wrote:


Do you like going blink? I like going for a mid-game timing, so I go for immortal+VR+zealots

On September 27 2011 01:23 Mikelius wrote:


2-1-1 build PvP?! Could you show me some replays please?

On September 26 2011 21:49 ZeromuS wrote:


How do you play against muta play like that on a map like nerazim? I feel the 3rd is so far away its hard to effectively split the army and defend each base easily. Should I be focused on having an army there while cannons warp in and then have less units when i get more cannons? Just delaying basically?

Then I guess you can pressure back with warp prisms if they make it out? or DTs or something?

On September 26 2011 23:14 Latedi wrote:


Yeah you make a stargate and start pressuring, then you throw down another one if you scout mutas. You have to start transitioning away from them efter a while though even if zerg doesn't. Zerg will most likely have more mutas than you have phoenixes after a while and it's better to get storm, also infestors will ruin your day if the zerg catches like 20 phoenixes. Phoenixes can be really good against infestors but it's all about who catches who first. Preferably you engage with some colossus stalker sentry army and fly your phoenixes in from behind etc. The problem I have is if you can't confirm the zerg's third, how many void rays do you make before moving out?

On September 27 2011 01:55 JonnyLaw wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Geiko I'm rather lost against mutas depending on my opening as well.

When opening forge expand into robo and scouting a three base roach/ling into 6 gas muta I feel very worried. I've tried two or even three stargate phoenix against this and it's completely laughable as a response.

I manage to win games quite easily if I scout the muta or even just extremely heavy gas before I've committed to any tech. Six or seven gate zealot/stalker pushes win for me at this point. I sim city my main, even going up to a full wall off to prevent ling runby.

For a longer game I have been seeing Protoss losing hard in GSL to muta/ling if you do not have a timing attack planned. I guess one key for me is assuring a proper zealot or ht or colossus count vs muta/ling also. Something has to shred the roach or ling ground army quickly so the stalker and ht can beat the muta ball. Assuring little to no damage from the mutas is extremely difficult for me as well.

On September 27 2011 02:58 Geiko wrote:


Oh so you're talking about a stargate opening, I thought you were talking about a reactive stargate when you scout or suspect mutas.

Regarding stargate openings, there are two schools of thought. The first is to open with a single voidray and immediately send him through the attack path (picking off overlords etc...) in order to scout for roach all ins and for the third and put slight pressure on the zerg while taking map control.

The second is to chrono out 3 void rays followed by a couple of phoenixes and head directly to the third (or main or natural on close air position maps) and try to do damage with the void rays. In this approach you want to conceal your stargate for as long as possible. I think this style has fallen out of fashion due to the 2 base infestor-ling style or 2 base hydra all-ins that have been developed which is a problem if you have been denied probe/zealot scout (that last statement is only from my ladder experience, I haven't been following the korean scene too much recently so I might be wrong).

On September 27 2011 00:05 Mikelius wrote:
I need some PvP help, since the new patch hit I feel a bit lost in the match up, before I usually went blink stalkers with moderate success, but now with the blink nerf and immortal buff I'm unsure as to what build to use and what transitions are open/viable, could anyone recommend some openers/builds that are relatively safe and encourage macro/normal play?

I'm mid level plat by the way.

On September 27 2011 03:16 Plansix wrote:


I don't think you can do reative stargate againsts a hard muta push. They are to easily picked off. I normally go stalkers and tutle up hard. I also rush armor upgrades along with attack. The muta does good damage against a basic stalker(9 vs 10), but the stalker scales up better with armor and GS, they can take them on.

I find the key is to keep calm and not push out. That is playing into the zerg's hand. The more mutas he gets, the better you are. On a long enough timeline, you will have an army he can't win a straight up fight with and you can clean the map. If he engages, he has to lose his entire army, re-max and then wipe you out. But if you go to early, he will overwhelm you.