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On September 23 2011 10:51 socommaster123 wrote:
Could anyone help me with a problem im having PvZ. It's against mass muta ling play I try to go mass blink stalker and add a few phoenixes but i just get stomped.
'
It really depends what level you play at, but a common way to deal with it has always been the 6 Gate +1 (weapons) timing attack (2 base). I'm not sure if you have tried this, but there was a point in time where Zerg would never tech Muta off two base for fear of getting 6 gated. Your attack should hit somewhere in between 9:00 ~ 10:00 when Mutas are first being produced. Mutas in low numbers are not good combat units, so you are essentially forcing them to use them by attacking them with so many units.
Try it out!
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On September 23 2011 10:48 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 10:17 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 09:56 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 09:18 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 07:15 Chelch wrote:On September 23 2011 06:33 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 22 2011 21:20 mizU wrote:
Fast robo in PvP is pretty much the safest thing to do, since you can get out an early obs, and REACT to what the other player is doing. Not really. The safest thing to do is to make cannons up your ramp, and lots of them. More like you yourself have the easiest time surviving when you go robotics tech. Don't confuse preferences with facts. Yeah, thats why he said "pretty much" Edit: No it isn't. He doesn't really know what he's talking about. He's just most comfortable with Robo tech and thinks it's the safest due to that. It isn't necessarily the safest at all. It's also bad advice to say it's the safest, and can potentially inhibit people from improving. Even if he may have mistakenly suggested that Robo is "safest" perhaps you shouldn't sound so condescending by claiming he "doesn't know what he's talking about". And in regards to inhibiting improvement, mizU clearly suggested Robo tech with the intention to provide good advice. Calling him out and saying "you're stunting a players growth by saying that" is extreme. I don't see why saying he said bad advice is extreme... I'm not the only one to do so either. I kinda think you're being more extreme than anyone else QTIP. I just want people to have clear and good advice in this thread. Really? I'm sorry you think that. I thought that a comment like "pretty much the safest thing" getting slammed by "you dont know what your talking" about was extreme.You wanting people to have clear and good advice is commendable, but everyone who comes to this same thread is looking for the same thing (minus the trolls). Chances are mizU wanted the same thing. Slamming him for it isn't necessary, perhaps constructive critique accompanied with an alternative suggestion is a more amicable way to handle the matter. Especially if you are as serious about coaching as you are. But -- I'm not looking to pick a fight. It's a small matter. I just voice my opinion, and you yours.
But his voice is recommended by the forum...
So anyone know of the counter to carrier play? other then some coruptors?
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United States8476 Posts
On September 23 2011 12:23 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 10:48 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 10:17 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 09:56 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 09:18 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 07:15 Chelch wrote:On September 23 2011 06:33 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 22 2011 21:20 mizU wrote:
Fast robo in PvP is pretty much the safest thing to do, since you can get out an early obs, and REACT to what the other player is doing. Not really. The safest thing to do is to make cannons up your ramp, and lots of them. More like you yourself have the easiest time surviving when you go robotics tech. Don't confuse preferences with facts. Yeah, thats why he said "pretty much" Edit: No it isn't. He doesn't really know what he's talking about. He's just most comfortable with Robo tech and thinks it's the safest due to that. It isn't necessarily the safest at all. It's also bad advice to say it's the safest, and can potentially inhibit people from improving. Even if he may have mistakenly suggested that Robo is "safest" perhaps you shouldn't sound so condescending by claiming he "doesn't know what he's talking about". And in regards to inhibiting improvement, mizU clearly suggested Robo tech with the intention to provide good advice. Calling him out and saying "you're stunting a players growth by saying that" is extreme. I don't see why saying he said bad advice is extreme... I'm not the only one to do so either. I kinda think you're being more extreme than anyone else QTIP. I just want people to have clear and good advice in this thread. Really? I'm sorry you think that. I thought that a comment like "pretty much the safest thing" getting slammed by "you dont know what your talking" about was extreme.You wanting people to have clear and good advice is commendable, but everyone who comes to this same thread is looking for the same thing (minus the trolls). Chances are mizU wanted the same thing. Slamming him for it isn't necessary, perhaps constructive critique accompanied with an alternative suggestion is a more amicable way to handle the matter. Especially if you are as serious about coaching as you are. But -- I'm not looking to pick a fight. It's a small matter. I just voice my opinion, and you yours. But his voice is recommended by the forum... So anyone know of the counter to carrier play? other then some coruptors?
Corruptors hard counter carriers like nothing else. However, if you're having problems with carriers, then you probably did something wrong before the carriers came into play. Submit a replay.
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Canada13391 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:30 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 06:15 ZeromuS wrote:
I havent won a PvZ in over 10 games with the exception of holding a 6 pool and following up for a win. Infestors,roaches, mutas, broodlords no matter what I have been completely and entirely losing. What build should I look to to bring me out of this terrible slump? Sounds like you're playing too passive. Try going Blink/Chargelot with a forge constantly upgrading (two forges once 3 base), and have a robo out for observers. In Diamond league, playing like this will really help you improve general playing skills due to the amount of things needed to be done in order to win. You can also use Warp Prisms from your Robotics once you have your Observers out. No Colossus or Immortals, and don't get more than 4-5 Sentries early game. You should be able to take a pretty fast third.
Do you have replays? I don't see how even a well upgraded gateway only force would work for me without higher tech units. When should I incorporate stuff like High Templar, and other tech units - after I take a 3rd base?
Also, when should I attack in order to make this army work for me? Should I turtle and use the warp prism as my main form of harass or be moving about the map to force the army of the Z to move so I can have a good warp prism based attack?
How many gates should I be working off of?
Im very lost PvZ now and need more than a simple blink/chargelot idea to work off of and would love to have a gameplan or idea of 1 gate fe vs forge fe vs 3 base before Teching (excluding the necessary obs) etc.
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On September 23 2011 12:23 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 10:48 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 10:17 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 09:56 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 09:18 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 07:15 Chelch wrote:On September 23 2011 06:33 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 22 2011 21:20 mizU wrote:
Fast robo in PvP is pretty much the safest thing to do, since you can get out an early obs, and REACT to what the other player is doing. Not really. The safest thing to do is to make cannons up your ramp, and lots of them. More like you yourself have the easiest time surviving when you go robotics tech. Don't confuse preferences with facts. Yeah, thats why he said "pretty much" Edit: No it isn't. He doesn't really know what he's talking about. He's just most comfortable with Robo tech and thinks it's the safest due to that. It isn't necessarily the safest at all. It's also bad advice to say it's the safest, and can potentially inhibit people from improving. Even if he may have mistakenly suggested that Robo is "safest" perhaps you shouldn't sound so condescending by claiming he "doesn't know what he's talking about". And in regards to inhibiting improvement, mizU clearly suggested Robo tech with the intention to provide good advice. Calling him out and saying "you're stunting a players growth by saying that" is extreme. I don't see why saying he said bad advice is extreme... I'm not the only one to do so either. I kinda think you're being more extreme than anyone else QTIP. I just want people to have clear and good advice in this thread. Really? I'm sorry you think that. I thought that a comment like "pretty much the safest thing" getting slammed by "you dont know what your talking" about was extreme.You wanting people to have clear and good advice is commendable, but everyone who comes to this same thread is looking for the same thing (minus the trolls). Chances are mizU wanted the same thing. Slamming him for it isn't necessary, perhaps constructive critique accompanied with an alternative suggestion is a more amicable way to handle the matter. Especially if you are as serious about coaching as you are. But -- I'm not looking to pick a fight. It's a small matter. I just voice my opinion, and you yours. But his voice is recommended by the forum... So anyone know of the counter to carrier play? other then some coruptors?
Don't worry! I definitely respect Cecil's opinion. He wrote some great guides and definitely knows what he's talking about.
However, just because he's a blue poster doesn't mean I'm going to tuck my tail in between my legs and not stand my ground on an opinion (especially when we play at around the same level). I had my opinion and voiced it, him the same ^^. In the end we both want for this thread to provide good and clear advice!
In regards to Carriers, I can't really think of a good cost-efficient counter to them apart from Corruptors. Infestors can be good if you are able to neural ALL the carriers within a second or two of each other, but with reduced range and Protoss ground support, this is probably unlikely.
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On September 23 2011 12:37 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 06:30 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 06:15 ZeromuS wrote:
I havent won a PvZ in over 10 games with the exception of holding a 6 pool and following up for a win. Infestors,roaches, mutas, broodlords no matter what I have been completely and entirely losing. What build should I look to to bring me out of this terrible slump? Sounds like you're playing too passive. Try going Blink/Chargelot with a forge constantly upgrading (two forges once 3 base), and have a robo out for observers. In Diamond league, playing like this will really help you improve general playing skills due to the amount of things needed to be done in order to win. You can also use Warp Prisms from your Robotics once you have your Observers out. No Colossus or Immortals, and don't get more than 4-5 Sentries early game. You should be able to take a pretty fast third. Do you have replays? I don't see how even a well upgraded gateway only force would work for me without higher tech units. When should I incorporate stuff like High Templar, and other tech units - after I take a 3rd base? Also, when should I attack in order to make this army work for me? Should I turtle and use the warp prism as my main form of harass or be moving about the map to force the army of the Z to move so I can have a good warp prism based attack? How many gates should I be working off of? Im very lost PvZ now and need more than a simple blink/chargelot idea to work off of and would love to have a gameplan or idea of 1 gate fe vs forge fe vs 3 base before Teching (excluding the necessary obs) etc.
You still have me added right? I'll play some games against a Diamond opponent around your skill level and get you a replay or two.
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On September 23 2011 10:51 socommaster123 wrote:
Could anyone help me with a problem im having PvZ. It's against mass muta ling play I try to go mass blink stalker and add a few phoenixes but i just get stomped.
'
Are you positioning and microing properly? Add some sentries for shield/FF, so you can absorb damage and Wall off your stalkers from the lings. Gonna Need some replays though.
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On September 23 2011 12:37 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 06:30 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 06:15 ZeromuS wrote:
I havent won a PvZ in over 10 games with the exception of holding a 6 pool and following up for a win. Infestors,roaches, mutas, broodlords no matter what I have been completely and entirely losing. What build should I look to to bring me out of this terrible slump? Sounds like you're playing too passive. Try going Blink/Chargelot with a forge constantly upgrading (two forges once 3 base), and have a robo out for observers. In Diamond league, playing like this will really help you improve general playing skills due to the amount of things needed to be done in order to win. You can also use Warp Prisms from your Robotics once you have your Observers out. No Colossus or Immortals, and don't get more than 4-5 Sentries early game. You should be able to take a pretty fast third. Do you have replays? I don't see how even a well upgraded gateway only force would work for me without higher tech units. When should I incorporate stuff like High Templar, and other tech units - after I take a 3rd base? Also, when should I attack in order to make this army work for me? Should I turtle and use the warp prism as my main form of harass or be moving about the map to force the army of the Z to move so I can have a good warp prism based attack? How many gates should I be working off of? Im very lost PvZ now and need more than a simple blink/chargelot idea to work off of and would love to have a gameplan or idea of 1 gate fe vs forge fe vs 3 base before Teching (excluding the necessary obs) etc.
In my opinion colossus would fit very well with this mixture of units. It's powerful and easy to use, all the gateway units would be good at taking for them and stalkers kill corruptors easily.
This isn't really what Cecil suggested but the standard is getting a stalker sentry colossus army with +2 and blink from 2 bases and then taking a third.
On September 23 2011 10:54 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 10:51 socommaster123 wrote:
Could anyone help me with a problem im having PvZ. It's against mass muta ling play I try to go mass blink stalker and add a few phoenixes but i just get stomped.
' It really depends what level you play at, but a common way to deal with it has always been the 6 Gate +1 (weapons) timing attack (2 base). I'm not sure if you have tried this, but there was a point in time where Zerg would never tech Muta off two base for fear of getting 6 gated. Your attack should hit somewhere in between 9:00 ~ 10:00 when Mutas are first being produced. Mutas in low numbers are not good combat units, so you are essentially forcing them to use them by attacking them with so many units. Try it out!
This push is super strong  If you scout the mutas too late here are some other tips:
Get blink, and as many upgrades as possible. weapons are good against lings and armor against mutas. Cannon up your mineral lines if you want to move your stalkers from there to attack or expand, and when you got maybe 2 saturated bases or taking a third, get templar tech. Archons and storms are really good against both muta and ling. Just remember to attack before the zerg transitions or he might hae an army of roach infestor instead.
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On September 23 2011 09:18 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 07:15 Chelch wrote:On September 23 2011 06:33 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 22 2011 21:20 mizU wrote:
Fast robo in PvP is pretty much the safest thing to do, since you can get out an early obs, and REACT to what the other player is doing. Not really. The safest thing to do is to make cannons up your ramp, and lots of them. More like you yourself have the easiest time surviving when you go robotics tech. Don't confuse preferences with facts. Yeah, thats why he said "pretty much" Edit: No it isn't. He doesn't really know what he's talking about. He's just most comfortable with Robo tech and thinks it's the safest due to that. It isn't necessarily the safest at all. It's also bad advice to say it's the safest, and can potentially inhibit people from improving.
Just to get it right:
- robo tech in PvP: risky and unsafe play. Practically a coin flip. Not recommended for players willing to improve.
- mass cannons up your ramp: the way to go. Safe and flexible opening giving you an ability to react to various strategies and a chance for long-term improvement.
Thanks for clearing that up.
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On September 23 2011 18:36 habermas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 09:18 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 07:15 Chelch wrote:On September 23 2011 06:33 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 22 2011 21:20 mizU wrote:
Fast robo in PvP is pretty much the safest thing to do, since you can get out an early obs, and REACT to what the other player is doing. Not really. The safest thing to do is to make cannons up your ramp, and lots of them. More like you yourself have the easiest time surviving when you go robotics tech. Don't confuse preferences with facts. Yeah, thats why he said "pretty much" Edit: No it isn't. He doesn't really know what he's talking about. He's just most comfortable with Robo tech and thinks it's the safest due to that. It isn't necessarily the safest at all. It's also bad advice to say it's the safest, and can potentially inhibit people from improving. Just to get it right: - robo tech in PvP: risky and unsafe play. Practically a coin flip. Not recommended for players willing to improve. - mass cannons up your ramp: the way to go. Safe and flexible opening giving you an ability to react to various strategies and a chance for long-term improvement. Thanks for clearing that up.
Ok, maybe I'm terribly misinformed or I'm thinking of slightly higher level play, but the only safe thing about cannons is that you will have difficulty dieing to most kinds of early aggression or to dts.
However, I don't think it is actually "safe" because it makes you lose to a lot of things that anyone can do such as get colossi out quick, blink stalker contain, and most of all just expand and out produce you.
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On September 23 2011 12:54 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 12:23 sermokala wrote:On September 23 2011 10:48 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 10:17 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 09:56 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 09:18 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 07:15 Chelch wrote:On September 23 2011 06:33 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 22 2011 21:20 mizU wrote:
Fast robo in PvP is pretty much the safest thing to do, since you can get out an early obs, and REACT to what the other player is doing. Not really. The safest thing to do is to make cannons up your ramp, and lots of them. More like you yourself have the easiest time surviving when you go robotics tech. Don't confuse preferences with facts. Yeah, thats why he said "pretty much" Edit: No it isn't. He doesn't really know what he's talking about. He's just most comfortable with Robo tech and thinks it's the safest due to that. It isn't necessarily the safest at all. It's also bad advice to say it's the safest, and can potentially inhibit people from improving. Even if he may have mistakenly suggested that Robo is "safest" perhaps you shouldn't sound so condescending by claiming he "doesn't know what he's talking about". And in regards to inhibiting improvement, mizU clearly suggested Robo tech with the intention to provide good advice. Calling him out and saying "you're stunting a players growth by saying that" is extreme. I don't see why saying he said bad advice is extreme... I'm not the only one to do so either. I kinda think you're being more extreme than anyone else QTIP. I just want people to have clear and good advice in this thread. Really? I'm sorry you think that. I thought that a comment like "pretty much the safest thing" getting slammed by "you dont know what your talking" about was extreme.You wanting people to have clear and good advice is commendable, but everyone who comes to this same thread is looking for the same thing (minus the trolls). Chances are mizU wanted the same thing. Slamming him for it isn't necessary, perhaps constructive critique accompanied with an alternative suggestion is a more amicable way to handle the matter. Especially if you are as serious about coaching as you are. But -- I'm not looking to pick a fight. It's a small matter. I just voice my opinion, and you yours. But his voice is recommended by the forum... So anyone know of the counter to carrier play? other then some coruptors? Don't worry! I definitely respect Cecil's opinion. He wrote some great guides and definitely knows what he's talking about. However, just because he's a blue poster doesn't mean I'm going to tuck my tail in between my legs and not stand my ground on an opinion (especially when we play at around the same level).
Can we have a showmatch pleaaaase ?
On a side note, I agree with Cecil that mizu's comment is pretty uninformed. There are a number of builds that by the time you scout them with an observer, you already lost the game or are very far behind.
Edit : And lol at the guys taking Cecil's comment on cannons seriously (or am I being trolled ? :/ )
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On September 23 2011 18:58 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 12:54 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 12:23 sermokala wrote:On September 23 2011 10:48 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 10:17 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 09:56 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 09:18 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 07:15 Chelch wrote:On September 23 2011 06:33 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 22 2011 21:20 mizU wrote:
Fast robo in PvP is pretty much the safest thing to do, since you can get out an early obs, and REACT to what the other player is doing. Not really. The safest thing to do is to make cannons up your ramp, and lots of them. More like you yourself have the easiest time surviving when you go robotics tech. Don't confuse preferences with facts. Yeah, thats why he said "pretty much" Edit: No it isn't. He doesn't really know what he's talking about. He's just most comfortable with Robo tech and thinks it's the safest due to that. It isn't necessarily the safest at all. It's also bad advice to say it's the safest, and can potentially inhibit people from improving. Even if he may have mistakenly suggested that Robo is "safest" perhaps you shouldn't sound so condescending by claiming he "doesn't know what he's talking about". And in regards to inhibiting improvement, mizU clearly suggested Robo tech with the intention to provide good advice. Calling him out and saying "you're stunting a players growth by saying that" is extreme. I don't see why saying he said bad advice is extreme... I'm not the only one to do so either. I kinda think you're being more extreme than anyone else QTIP. I just want people to have clear and good advice in this thread. Really? I'm sorry you think that. I thought that a comment like "pretty much the safest thing" getting slammed by "you dont know what your talking" about was extreme.You wanting people to have clear and good advice is commendable, but everyone who comes to this same thread is looking for the same thing (minus the trolls). Chances are mizU wanted the same thing. Slamming him for it isn't necessary, perhaps constructive critique accompanied with an alternative suggestion is a more amicable way to handle the matter. Especially if you are as serious about coaching as you are. But -- I'm not looking to pick a fight. It's a small matter. I just voice my opinion, and you yours. But his voice is recommended by the forum... So anyone know of the counter to carrier play? other then some coruptors? Don't worry! I definitely respect Cecil's opinion. He wrote some great guides and definitely knows what he's talking about. However, just because he's a blue poster doesn't mean I'm going to tuck my tail in between my legs and not stand my ground on an opinion (especially when we play at around the same level). Can we have a showmatch pleaaaase ? On a side note, I agree with Cecil that mizu's comment is pretty uninformed. There are a number of builds that by the time you scout them with an observer, you already lost the game or are very far behind. Edit : And lol at the guys taking Cecil's comment on cannons seriously (or am I being trolled ? :/ )
Even if it is just trolling it would be worse to assume that and end up misdirecting someone just because they saw a blue post and instantly trusted it.
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On September 23 2011 18:58 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 12:54 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 12:23 sermokala wrote:On September 23 2011 10:48 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 10:17 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 09:56 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 09:18 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 07:15 Chelch wrote:On September 23 2011 06:33 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 22 2011 21:20 mizU wrote:
Fast robo in PvP is pretty much the safest thing to do, since you can get out an early obs, and REACT to what the other player is doing. Not really. The safest thing to do is to make cannons up your ramp, and lots of them. More like you yourself have the easiest time surviving when you go robotics tech. Don't confuse preferences with facts. Yeah, thats why he said "pretty much" Edit: No it isn't. He doesn't really know what he's talking about. He's just most comfortable with Robo tech and thinks it's the safest due to that. It isn't necessarily the safest at all. It's also bad advice to say it's the safest, and can potentially inhibit people from improving. Even if he may have mistakenly suggested that Robo is "safest" perhaps you shouldn't sound so condescending by claiming he "doesn't know what he's talking about". And in regards to inhibiting improvement, mizU clearly suggested Robo tech with the intention to provide good advice. Calling him out and saying "you're stunting a players growth by saying that" is extreme. I don't see why saying he said bad advice is extreme... I'm not the only one to do so either. I kinda think you're being more extreme than anyone else QTIP. I just want people to have clear and good advice in this thread. Really? I'm sorry you think that. I thought that a comment like "pretty much the safest thing" getting slammed by "you dont know what your talking" about was extreme.You wanting people to have clear and good advice is commendable, but everyone who comes to this same thread is looking for the same thing (minus the trolls). Chances are mizU wanted the same thing. Slamming him for it isn't necessary, perhaps constructive critique accompanied with an alternative suggestion is a more amicable way to handle the matter. Especially if you are as serious about coaching as you are. But -- I'm not looking to pick a fight. It's a small matter. I just voice my opinion, and you yours. But his voice is recommended by the forum... So anyone know of the counter to carrier play? other then some coruptors? Don't worry! I definitely respect Cecil's opinion. He wrote some great guides and definitely knows what he's talking about. However, just because he's a blue poster doesn't mean I'm going to tuck my tail in between my legs and not stand my ground on an opinion (especially when we play at around the same level). Can we have a showmatch pleaaaase ? On a side note, I agree with Cecil that mizu's comment is pretty uninformed. There are a number of builds that by the time you scout them with an observer, you already lost the game or are very far behind. Edit : And lol at the guys taking Cecil's comment on cannons seriously (or am I being trolled ? :/ )
On another sidenote, won't you help me see if my 3gate robo is safe against 4gates? :v And what builds are you talking about? 3gate stargate?
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On September 23 2011 19:19 Latedi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 18:58 Geiko wrote:On September 23 2011 12:54 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 12:23 sermokala wrote:On September 23 2011 10:48 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 10:17 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 09:56 QTIP. wrote:On September 23 2011 09:18 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 23 2011 07:15 Chelch wrote:On September 23 2011 06:33 CecilSunkure wrote:
[quote]
Not really. The safest thing to do is to make cannons up your ramp, and lots of them. More like you yourself have the easiest time surviving when you go robotics tech. Don't confuse preferences with facts.
Yeah, thats why he said "pretty much" Edit: No it isn't. He doesn't really know what he's talking about. He's just most comfortable with Robo tech and thinks it's the safest due to that. It isn't necessarily the safest at all. It's also bad advice to say it's the safest, and can potentially inhibit people from improving. Even if he may have mistakenly suggested that Robo is "safest" perhaps you shouldn't sound so condescending by claiming he "doesn't know what he's talking about". And in regards to inhibiting improvement, mizU clearly suggested Robo tech with the intention to provide good advice. Calling him out and saying "you're stunting a players growth by saying that" is extreme. I don't see why saying he said bad advice is extreme... I'm not the only one to do so either. I kinda think you're being more extreme than anyone else QTIP. I just want people to have clear and good advice in this thread. Really? I'm sorry you think that. I thought that a comment like "pretty much the safest thing" getting slammed by "you dont know what your talking" about was extreme.You wanting people to have clear and good advice is commendable, but everyone who comes to this same thread is looking for the same thing (minus the trolls). Chances are mizU wanted the same thing. Slamming him for it isn't necessary, perhaps constructive critique accompanied with an alternative suggestion is a more amicable way to handle the matter. Especially if you are as serious about coaching as you are. But -- I'm not looking to pick a fight. It's a small matter. I just voice my opinion, and you yours. But his voice is recommended by the forum... So anyone know of the counter to carrier play? other then some coruptors? Don't worry! I definitely respect Cecil's opinion. He wrote some great guides and definitely knows what he's talking about. However, just because he's a blue poster doesn't mean I'm going to tuck my tail in between my legs and not stand my ground on an opinion (especially when we play at around the same level). Can we have a showmatch pleaaaase ? On a side note, I agree with Cecil that mizu's comment is pretty uninformed. There are a number of builds that by the time you scout them with an observer, you already lost the game or are very far behind. Edit : And lol at the guys taking Cecil's comment on cannons seriously (or am I being trolled ? :/ ) On another sidenote, won't you help me see if my 3gate robo is safe against 4gates? :v And what builds are you talking about? 3gate stargate?
Definitely will. Just got my computer back but forgot my mouse though  So I have this shitty wireless mouse but we can still do some tests. You can add me : geiko.813.
However from what I read, your build looks more like a defensive 3 gate that squeezes in a robo, but you don't actually use the robo to defend the 4 gate right ?
Regarding the builds, well it's hard to answer without listing all of the possibilities. The decision making in PvP happens before the observer timing, that's not saying that you can't get valuable information with your observer, just that you might already be in a BO loss situation when your observer reaches his base. Expand builds come to mind for example against a obs first robo build.
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Masters Protoss here
In PvT I've always opened for fast collosus, but I really want to change that playstyle because on some maps (shakuras for example) I don't feel like it's that strong. I would rather go into templar or archon chargelot play.
Are there any Master Protoss players out there who use this style? How can you be safe against early pressure while teching to it, I feel like I would just outright die if they catch me before say storm is researched, or the templar archives has built. Do you still get a robo for observers? Are storm drops viable? Replays would be MUCH appreciated, either from master players themselves or from high level professionals. Thanks a bunch!
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So I asked: "After the patch it seems early robo is the safest way to play PvP. Is this a correct assumption and what's the best follow-up?". Another guy says: "Yeah you're right, go robo" and actually adds some reasoning and answers some of my questions. Then a blue poster comes and says: "You're terribly misinformed. You'll be better off with mass cannons up your ramp". Who's trolling here?
Also it seems you even have problems with naming an auto-loss counter build. Sure unscouted FE may be a problem, but then going FE is definitely not safe so out of the two builds 3 gate robo is safer. Blink used to be an alternative (even though it's an auto-loss against DTs and, imo hard against robo twilight, so if it's a safer opening is arguable), but it has been nerfed in three ways in the recent patch: research time, immortal buff and ramp vision; thus my initial question.
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I would actually agree that robo is the safest build, it's very easy to react to blink stalker with a few quick immortals. And cannons on your ramp is just too damaging to your economy and army value, so it's not safe at all.
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Alright guys lets all stop talking about nothing here ^^
"robo" or "early robo" isn't a build, so what build are you guys talking about ?
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On September 23 2011 20:27 Geiko wrote:
Alright guys lets all stop talking about nothing here ^^
"robo" or "early robo" isn't a build, so what build are you guys talking about ?
Hey man I actually use your opening and go into blink or robo play depending on what I scout/feel like :D
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On September 23 2011 20:27 Geiko wrote:
Alright guys lets all stop talking about nothing here ^^
"robo" or "early robo" isn't a build, so what build are you guys talking about ?
Ok, let's change "build" with "tech choice". I just realized I use your opening as well. What is your "standard" follow up.
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EPT
