EPTI guess the issue I'm having is that it's impossible to tell if they're going Robo or Blink, and going DTs requires a time investment such that you need to know early on.
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 64
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Supah
708 Posts
I guess the issue I'm having is that it's impossible to tell if they're going Robo or Blink, and going DTs requires a time investment such that you need to know early on. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13391 Posts
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:15 ZeromuS wrote: I havent won a PvZ in over 10 games with the exception of holding a 6 pool and following up for a win. Infestors,roaches, mutas, broodlords no matter what I have been completely and entirely losing. What build should I look to to bring me out of this terrible slump? May sound a bit counter-intuitive, but I've reverted back to Stargate play. I saw some funky things that can be done with two VR's. Two VR's snipe drones very quickly - it's very exciting. I will open with Gate - Stargate - Gate - Expo. The early VR of course holds off the roach-ling timings and shuts down overlord scouting. If you position two VR's behind the mineral line of Zergs, EVEN if they have spores to defend, you can still snipe drones and pull back in time to avoid any hull damage. On maps where there is open air space behind the natural, it is very annoying for Zergs to deal with. I have a replay of me playing this style vs a Zerg on Shattered Temple, I can give you the replay later if you'd like. I killed around 15 drones, shut down overlords, and denied the third multiple times. You may have tried this already - not sure, but it has revived my interest in Stargate openers. I play at 900 Point Masters NA if you are wondering. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13391 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:22 QTIP. wrote: May sound a bit counter-intuitive, but I've reverted back to Stargate play. I saw some funky things that can be done with two VR's. Two VR's snipe drones very quickly - it's very exciting. I will open with Gate - Stargate - Gate - Expo. The early VR of course holds off the roach-ling timings and shuts down overlord scouting. If you position two VR's behind the mineral line of Zergs, EVEN if they have spores to defend, you can still snipe drones and pull back in time to avoid any hull damage. On maps where there is open air space behind the natural, it is very annoying for Zergs to deal with. I have a replay of me playing this style vs a Zerg on Shattered Temple, I can give you the replay later if you'd like. I killed around 15 drones, shut down overlords, and denied the third multiple times. You may have tried this already - not sure, but it has revived my interest in Stargate openers. I play at 900 Point Masters NA if you are wondering. I could care less what level you are  I just need to try something new lol Im so lost at diamond where I just cant seem to engage properly without losing everything and not being able to rebuild my army :/ PM me the replay please  | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:26 ZeromuS wrote: I could care less what level you are I just need to try something new lol Im so lost at diamond where I just cant seem to engage properly without losing everything and not being able to rebuild my army :/ PM me the replay please Sounds good! I'm not at home right now, but I will make sure to message it to you as soon as I can. Probably in 3 hours-ish. That work? | ||
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darklight54321
United States361 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:15 ZeromuS wrote: I havent won a PvZ in over 10 games with the exception of holding a 6 pool and following up for a win. Infestors,roaches, mutas, broodlords no matter what I have been completely and entirely losing. What build should I look to to bring me out of this terrible slump? help if we knew what youve done.... | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:15 ZeromuS wrote: I havent won a PvZ in over 10 games with the exception of holding a 6 pool and following up for a win. Infestors,roaches, mutas, broodlords no matter what I have been completely and entirely losing. What build should I look to to bring me out of this terrible slump? Sounds like you're playing too passive. Try going Blink/Chargelot with a forge constantly upgrading (two forges once 3 base), and have a robo out for observers. In Diamond league, playing like this will really help you improve general playing skills due to the amount of things needed to be done in order to win. You can also use Warp Prisms from your Robotics once you have your Observers out. No Colossus or Immortals, and don't get more than 4-5 Sentries early game. You should be able to take a pretty fast third. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:26 ZeromuS wrote: I could care less what level you are I just need to try something new lol Im so lost at diamond where I just cant seem to engage properly without losing everything and not being able to rebuild my army :/ PM me the replay please I've been having a lot of success lately with a FFE into phoenix harass to force anti-air and deal as much damage as possible while getting fast +2 weapons with 6 gateways of units. If I think I can kill him then I do, if I'm not sure I just expand, and usually have a strong enough army to hold it easily. Once you've got the third base as toss without being behind it's pretty easy to go from there. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On September 22 2011 21:20 mizU wrote: Fast robo in PvP is pretty much the safest thing to do, since you can get out an early obs, and REACT to what the other player is doing. Not really. The safest thing to do is to make cannons up your ramp, and lots of them. More like you yourself have the easiest time surviving when you go robotics tech. Don't confuse preferences with facts. On September 22 2011 23:42 Mikelius wrote: Quick PvP question; since the current patch where fast robo seems to be the "safest" or most common opening, is there any way to take advantage of if with speed zealots? It isn't really the safest and you shouldn't think of it like that. Think of a Robo army as it is: slower more immobile units that pack powerful punches. How do you take advantage of this? Well they are slow, so use something that is fast. Chargelots are fast, but you can't get them over cliffs or FF, which Blink Stalkers can. | ||
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Mikelius
Germany517 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:26 ZeromuS wrote: I could care less what level you are I just need to try something new lol Im so lost at diamond where I just cant seem to engage properly without losing everything and not being able to rebuild my army :/ PM me the replay please You could go for a White Ra endorsed special tactic, works best on Tal Darim and Xel Naga where you can go for a really fast expo and wall in. Then pump Void Rays and eventually carriers off of 2 bases. Most Zerg see a void ray and get another queen and maybe 2 spores... which absolutely melt to 5 Voids. | ||
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Chelch
United Kingdom159 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:33 CecilSunkure wrote: Not really. The safest thing to do is to make cannons up your ramp, and lots of them. More like you yourself have the easiest time surviving when you go robotics tech. Don't confuse preferences with facts. Yeah, thats why he said "pretty much" | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
But it's not close to pretty much. | ||
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crv
4 Posts
On September 23 2011 05:21 Supah wrote: Masters here. Any general advice PvP? I do the 10 Gate into early 5 Stalkers. Lately, everyone I've been playing just 1 Base Blinks, and with an early expo/Robo I get outnumbered. DTs are an answer, of course, but I feel like there's no finesse to that, and it's just a BO loss because the other guy is going all in on Blink, plus it's still a coinflip considering 3 Gate Robo is still common (?). I don't know, I still feel like there's no middle ground in PvP, or rather no economic ground. I guess the issue I'm having is that it's impossible to tell if they're going Robo or Blink, and going DTs requires a time investment such that you need to know early on. Adjust your Build depending on Map. Blink all-ins are particularly strong in certain scenarios. If you are in that scenario, prepare accordingly. Don't stick too much to 10gate early stalk, rather Mix in some 1-2 protectors, Delay your exp/robo decision until you know for sure. One Way i used to go when facing this is teching for chargelots and just overwhelm him After He blinked. If you survive First pressure, all his future blinks will be defensive ones, and you have an easier transition than the Opponent. Be fast though, He will most likely try to end it with vision on highgrounds (still buying you a good amount of Time). Try it out, post experiences. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:26 ZeromuS wrote: I could care less what level you are I just need to try something new lol Im so lost at diamond where I just cant seem to engage properly without losing everything and not being able to rebuild my army :/ PM me the replay please http://drop.sc/36955 Here it is. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14098 Posts
I just tried an FFE in YABOT holy shit I love that opening. I feel safe like a nice cuddly blanket. Then I saw white-ra do a mother ship carrier build off of initial 2 stargate void pressure. what are the allins I need to look for and how the heck do I control my carriers? | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
Edit: No it isn't. He doesn't really know what he's talking about. He's just most comfortable with Robo tech and thinks it's the safest due to that. It isn't necessarily the safest at all. It's also bad advice to say it's the safest, and can potentially inhibit people from improving. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On September 23 2011 09:18 CecilSunkure wrote: Edit: No it isn't. He doesn't really know what he's talking about. He's just most comfortable with Robo tech and thinks it's the safest due to that. It isn't necessarily the safest at all. It's also bad advice to say it's the safest, and can potentially inhibit people from improving. Even if he may have mistakenly suggested that Robo is "safest" perhaps you shouldn't sound so condescending by claiming he "doesn't know what he's talking about". And in regards to inhibiting improvement, mizU clearly suggested Robo tech with the intention to provide good advice. Calling him out and saying "you're stunting a players growth by saying that" is extreme. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On September 23 2011 09:56 QTIP. wrote: Even if he may have mistakenly suggested that Robo is "safest" perhaps you shouldn't sound so condescending by claiming he "doesn't know what he's talking about". And in regards to inhibiting improvement, mizU clearly suggested Robo tech with the intention to provide good advice. Calling him out and saying "you're stunting a players growth by saying that" is extreme. I don't see why saying he said bad advice is extreme... I'm not the only one to do so either. I kinda think you're being more extreme than anyone else QTIP. I just want people to have clear and good advice in this thread. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On September 23 2011 10:17 CecilSunkure wrote: I don't see why saying he said bad advice is extreme... I'm not the only one to do so either. I kinda think you're being more extreme than anyone else QTIP. I just want people to have clear and good advice in this thread. Really? I'm sorry you think that. I thought that a comment like "pretty much the safest thing" getting slammed by "you dont know what your talking" about was extreme.You wanting people to have clear and good advice is commendable, but everyone who comes to this same thread is looking for the same thing (minus the trolls). Chances are mizU wanted the same thing. Slamming him for it isn't necessary, perhaps constructive critique accompanied with an alternative suggestion is a more amicable way to handle the matter. Especially if you are as serious about coaching as you are. But -- I'm not looking to pick a fight. It's a small matter. I just voice my opinion, and you yours. | ||
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socommaster123
United States578 Posts
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