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On September 20 2011 06:11 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 05:55 Darek97 wrote:
On maps where you its difficult to FFE what build should i do against zerg? I find that if i put up a later expansion like 3gate FE then i fell behind. If i do a stargate opening or DT's then I have to do damage to stay even which i don't like. What are some builds that can be done if i can't FFE? 1 gate FE. Or FFE anyway. Just because FFE is less strong on searing, xel naga, typhon, etc. doesn't make it non-viable.
It's much more difficult to pull off a 3 Gate Expand at higher levels on a lot of the maps than 1 Gate FE or FFE in my opinion, but if you are falling behind it's definitely your fault not the opening's. Just thought this was important to point out.
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On September 20 2011 08:31 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:11 Anihc wrote:On September 20 2011 05:55 Darek97 wrote:
On maps where you its difficult to FFE what build should i do against zerg? I find that if i put up a later expansion like 3gate FE then i fell behind. If i do a stargate opening or DT's then I have to do damage to stay even which i don't like. What are some builds that can be done if i can't FFE? 1 gate FE. Or FFE anyway. Just because FFE is less strong on searing, xel naga, typhon, etc. doesn't make it non-viable. It's much more difficult to pull off a 3 Gate Expand at higher levels on a lot of the maps than 1 Gate FE or FFE in my opinion, but if you are falling behind it's definitely your fault not the opening's. Just thought this was important to point out.
Errr thats very map dependent, more so than I think you're saying. If the Zerg scouts that its a 1 gate expand (and it is possible), they can produce like 20 slings and just run around denying your nat all day while expanding themselves until you get more gates up. This has happened to me twice on Shipyards.
I get away with a 3gate expand in mid masters just fine. As long as you do some sort of pressure if they're playing too greedy.
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1/1/1 What should I do? Wait for blizzard to patch it?
Map - Antiga. I KNOW that he is doing 1/1/1 cause I lost to that guy doing that exact same build. I go 1 gate FE, get a little unlucky when a hellion kills 3 probes and then when I barely saturate my expo and I am starting to pump out units he attacks me and instant gg  . The thing is I did that same build and in that same way with a friend but when he was doing another variation of the build with cloak, raven and a push 2-3 minutes later than this one. So the big question is how do you know EXACTLY what he is doing so I can react with the right army composition?
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=232507
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United States8476 Posts
On September 20 2011 12:36 xlava wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 08:31 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 20 2011 06:11 Anihc wrote:On September 20 2011 05:55 Darek97 wrote:
On maps where you its difficult to FFE what build should i do against zerg? I find that if i put up a later expansion like 3gate FE then i fell behind. If i do a stargate opening or DT's then I have to do damage to stay even which i don't like. What are some builds that can be done if i can't FFE? 1 gate FE. Or FFE anyway. Just because FFE is less strong on searing, xel naga, typhon, etc. doesn't make it non-viable. It's much more difficult to pull off a 3 Gate Expand at higher levels on a lot of the maps than 1 Gate FE or FFE in my opinion, but if you are falling behind it's definitely your fault not the opening's. Just thought this was important to point out. Errr thats very map dependent, more so than I think you're saying. If the Zerg scouts that its a 1 gate expand (and it is possible), they can produce like 20 slings and just run around denying your nat all day while expanding themselves until you get more gates up. This has happened to me twice on Shipyards. I get away with a 3gate expand in mid masters just fine. As long as you do some sort of pressure if they're playing too greedy.
As long as you sim city well, you're immune to dying from ling attacks. The worst case scenario is that he forces a nexus cancel, so your nexus goes up at the exact same time a 3 gate expand would while he makes 14ish lings instead of 7 drones.
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On September 20 2011 13:37 4kmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 12:36 xlava wrote:On September 20 2011 08:31 CecilSunkure wrote:On September 20 2011 06:11 Anihc wrote:On September 20 2011 05:55 Darek97 wrote:
On maps where you its difficult to FFE what build should i do against zerg? I find that if i put up a later expansion like 3gate FE then i fell behind. If i do a stargate opening or DT's then I have to do damage to stay even which i don't like. What are some builds that can be done if i can't FFE? 1 gate FE. Or FFE anyway. Just because FFE is less strong on searing, xel naga, typhon, etc. doesn't make it non-viable. It's much more difficult to pull off a 3 Gate Expand at higher levels on a lot of the maps than 1 Gate FE or FFE in my opinion, but if you are falling behind it's definitely your fault not the opening's. Just thought this was important to point out. Errr thats very map dependent, more so than I think you're saying. If the Zerg scouts that its a 1 gate expand (and it is possible), they can produce like 20 slings and just run around denying your nat all day while expanding themselves until you get more gates up. This has happened to me twice on Shipyards. I get away with a 3gate expand in mid masters just fine. As long as you do some sort of pressure if they're playing too greedy. As long as you sim city well, you're immune to dying from ling attacks. The worst case scenario is that he forces a nexus cancel, so your nexus goes up at the exact same time a 3 gate expand would while he makes 14ish lings instead of 7 drones.
Yeah I was about to say the same thing. Those 20 lings or so are going to put you behind only if you let them. I've held off a whole lot more than 20 lings with a 1 Gate FE, while losing a couple probes, a Zealot and a Nexus cancel.
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On September 20 2011 04:12 NmE_ wrote:
I have a question...
So, doing a 2 gate build, would you net more units faster if you were to ...
1) constantly Build units from your 1st gw
2) Drop 2nd gateway
3)Build core
4)Core and 2ndgw finish about the same time
5) research warp
6) Chrono Warp 1 time
7)spend the rest of the chronos on stalkers/sent/z
8) warp finishings/ warp in 2 units
My question is, how many units could one have at the time your 1st round of units are warped in with only chronoing warp research once, while spending the rest of them on your gateways.
I am at work right now and was thinking about this, I want to get home and try it but that wont be for another 4 hours... anyone want to give this a shot?
Sometimes I do something similar in PvT where I get antoher gate fast after the cybernetics core and spend more chronoboost on the gates than the WG research. The problem is that you end up on one base at 40+ food with only 2 gateways. Any expansion or tech will be late and it's hard to pressure with this kind of build as you have a hard time replacing lost units.
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So with patch 1.40 out now, what PvP builds will you protoss mentors (the high level posters who've continuously generously helped out with legit advice) recommend should be a good go-to-build to rely/practice on? Thanks in advance!
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Artosis once said that you can defend a 6 pool with a 15 nexus... is this map dependent? Or is it possible?
I have been 15 nexusing a lot, and I had to go for a late in base gateway against a 9 pool... I survived, but did I have to delay my nexus?
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United States8476 Posts
On September 22 2011 00:29 mizU wrote:
Artosis once said that you can defend a 6 pool with a 15 nexus... is this map dependent? Or is it possible?
I have been 15 nexusing a lot, and I had to go for a late in base gateway against a 9 pool... I survived, but did I have to delay my nexus?
That was only on jungle basin. Not viable on any other map.
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On September 21 2011 23:59 Zealot Lord wrote:
So with patch 1.40 out now, what PvP builds will you protoss mentors (the high level posters who've continuously generously helped out with legit advice) recommend should be a good go-to-build to rely/practice on? Thanks in advance!
3 gate robo expand is still viable. Even more so with the immortal range buff. You can still do the 4 gate just make sure he's not making lots of sentries to hold you off his ramp.
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Does anyone have any "tricks" to late game Protoss army control? I've just switched to P from random and I'm chucking away massive leads vs Terran bio by just getting rolled by a 200/200 army when they have 7/8+ ghosts and a bunch of medivacs/viking. I'm not talking about how to get good compositions because I can, I can spread my units out prefight sure, but if I have to move more than a little bit it's all clumped again. Is it simply a case of apm? I use 5 army hotkeys but that just makes them clump up by type .
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On September 22 2011 03:56 Immersion_ wrote:Does anyone have any "tricks" to late game Protoss army control? I've just switched to P from random and I'm chucking away massive leads vs Terran bio by just getting rolled by a 200/200 army when they have 7/8+ ghosts and a bunch of medivacs/viking. I'm not talking about how to get good compositions because I can, I can spread my units out prefight sure, but if I have to move more than a little bit it's all clumped again. Is it simply a case of apm? I use 5 army hotkeys but that just makes them clump up by type .
There are no magic tricks. Travel to sc2rep.com and download replays of Protoss playing PvT, and look for a vs bio game. Watch how they handle themselves and mimic them.
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So what are your opinions on PvP openers now? Blink robo has been regarded to be the most safe opener I guess, but with the blink nerf it feels even more inferior to immortal builds. Stargate and robo openers are still a coinflip I guess.
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Italy12246 Posts
On September 22 2011 06:53 Latedi wrote:
So what are your opinions on PvP openers now? Blink robo has been regarded to be the most safe opener I guess, but with the blink nerf it feels even more inferior to immortal builds. Stargate and robo openers are still a coinflip I guess.
I think robo into blink is still the less coinflippy way to open in the matchup. Since you can tech a bit faster and you are safer vs straight up blink you should still be abelt o get blink in time to basetrade vs 1base colossus, and against anything else you are in a reasonable position.
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So if you 15 nex, and they pool earlier then 13, you're basically dead?
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I am currently at a crossroads.
I have been playing (mostly) Zerg on ladder since December 2010 and went from a lowly Bronze League player to finishing Rank 1 Bronze in Season 1 and Rank 8 Gold in Season 2. I am now on Season 3, at Rank 16 on the Gold ladder, and I have decided that after the 1.4 patch that I will no longer play Zerg, for the following reasons:
- I hate ZvP because it's so difficult to scout early game aggression and keep your drone and unit counts balanced at the same time. Often, I'd lose to 4 gates, 3 gate robos, 3 gate blink builds or 3 gate DT expand/all in builds, and this is pre patch.
- My methods in taking on high Colossus numbers and Archon Chargelot often involved around the Infestor, a unit which I found incredible difficulty in using because I often couldn't land Neural Parasites very well. With a range nerf of 2 to them, it will be really hard to actually prevent my Infestors from being feedbacked or sniped hard and the Fungal nerf is quite a hit even then.
- ZvZ is frustratingly difficult.
- I don't feel like Zerg teaches me the mechanics of the game well enough, namely things like queuing, not getting supply blocked etc.
Anyway, TL;DR
I am absolutely terrible as Protoss and Terran. Can anybody give me a detailed, concise answer to make it from a subpar almost Bronze quality Protoss player to somebody who can actually get into the high leagues without cheesing hundreds of games with all-ins..
This game has turned badly frustrating for me now.
EDIT: Also, could anybody suggest to me a good Protoss replay pack to look at which can help me improve?
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On September 22 2011 10:40 mizU wrote:
So if you 15 nex, and they pool earlier then 13, you're basically dead?
Assuming good micro from both sides, if it's like 10 pool or earlier you're dead, if it's 11-13 pool you'll take a lot of probe losses and be behind but you're not dead.
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On September 22 2011 10:47 Clbull wrote:
Can anybody give me a detailed, concise answer to make it from a subpar almost Bronze
Make probes nonstop. Expand as your mineral line gets saturated. Make units. If all your production facilities are making units and you still have resources, make more production facilities. Repeat.
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Guys, if you are in a PvP situation where you just held off a 4 gate or some kind of early agression. When should you get your colossus or should you even?
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EPT
