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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
Austria24417 Posts
On February 13 2013 18:03 DrSayius wrote:
A page ago I was high bronze; I'm now high silver. Having lots of fun.
I had my first game against a sky-toss composition and was beaten rather dramatically. Its the first game in a while where I have not been able to understand what I could/should have done.
I scouted it earlier so knew it was coming, and thought that archon and stalker would be a good composition to counter (plus some zealot and colossus to take out his ground army). Turns out this was a big mistake. My economy was a lot better but no matter how much I reinforced, I just got smacked down again and again to probes, and could barely dent his fleet.
Is there an way to beat sky-toss as protoss without yourself taking to the air? What is a good composition?
Basically any decently executed timing attack with a high stalker count kills a skytoss attempt. If you're letting him get the mass skytoss army, you won't beat it with protoss ground units.
Skytoss is gas intensive as hell. Which means he can't have a lot of sentries or immortals. In other words, stalkers MURDER skytoss in low numbers. And even if you don't manage to kill his entire army, the trade will still favor you because you can reinforce more easily + cheaper. Just don't let him sit back and mass that army.
Here's what I'd do. If I scout him going skytoss off 1 base, I'd expand immediately because he won't be able to get aggressive in time before I'm set up to hold it. I'd get blink quickly and throw down extra gates. If he tries to expand, kill him. If he doesn't he's gonna have to all in, in which case you're perfectly set up to defend with your better production + your tech that counters his.
If he tries to switch from a standard protoss expand build into skytoss, you should scout it in time to throw down 2-3 more gates and just go shut him down immediately and he won't be able to hold.
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Thanks, this sounds like some really sound advice.
Its seems like heading for the sky is analogous to greed, and needs to be dealt with in the same way. It sounds like I lost as soon as I didn't punish him reasonably early on.
This is really helpful.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 13 2013 18:48 DrSayius wrote:
Thanks, this sounds like some really sound advice.
Its seems like heading for the sky is analogous to greed, and needs to be dealt with in the same way. It sounds like I lost as soon as I didn't punish him reasonably early on.
This is really helpful.
Yes, it's really really really greedy. Basically he's trying to get to the perfect army from the very start, which leaves him open to all sorts of timings.
Glad I could help 
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what other PvT builds are there that usually end the game before 15 mins. PvT is all the same..1 gate fe into robo tech collosus into chargelot archon HT storm collosus A move win 5 base toss vs 3 base terran typical MMMVG army. i am plat (actually gold but i play plat players) and i am facing terrans more and more and it's getting annoying, I win most my PvTs because i just out macro them and dominate them but it's all the same thing, air is not viable and if i try something else i will die. Basically i dont do all ins very often and against terran if im not messing around i pretty much always take it the macro game where i absolutely demonise the terrans so hard i feel bad for them. I think atm plat terrans are really easy to beat. Generally they do drops but i hold them off with little to no damage done.
So yeah anything that kills terran before 15 mins so i can save some time from this dull predictable match up where quite frankly terran should just leave when they see me on 4 bases....
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On February 10 2013 01:16 Kinon wrote:
Does anyone have any recent replays/guide for immortal busts in PvT? I saw some guides on TL, but they were more than a year old. Cheers!
Don't want to be too persistent, but I would really need an answer for that question.
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Italy12246 Posts
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On February 13 2013 20:50 Teoita wrote:
There are no recent guides. I'm sure SOME Protoss, possibly parting, recently immortal busted some other Terran on Ohana, but i don't remember which tournament it was from nor who he was playing T_T
Squirtle vs YoDa, Icarus, Code S RO32 and PartinG vs ByuN, Icarus, Code S RO32 were proxied Immortal busts. The other instances of Immortal attacks I saw were done out of 1g (Tear vs Yoda, Icarus, Code A; Bogus vs Argo, Caldeum, SPL, with a proxied Robotics) or 2gR expands (Trap vs aLive, Icarus, Code A).
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Austria24417 Posts
Up to high diamond not a single person I played held the 2 base colossus timing that Squirtle popularized. It's preeeeeetty good.
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Does anybody here like watching Naniwa's stream. He's so bloody strong. I have learnt a lot from him, his build orders are amazing. He has soooo many different variations. I am playing gms on na now!! I beat my first gm ever the other day :D
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Italy12246 Posts
On February 13 2013 21:05 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 20:50 Teoita wrote:
There are no recent guides. I'm sure SOME Protoss, possibly parting, recently immortal busted some other Terran on Ohana, but i don't remember which tournament it was from nor who he was playing T_T Squirtle vs YoDa, Icarus, Code S RO32 and PartinG vs ByuN, Icarus, Code S RO32 were proxied Immortal busts. The other instances of Immortal attacks I saw were done out of 1g (Tear vs Yoda, Icarus, Code A; Bogus vs Argo, Caldeum, SPL, with a proxied Robotics) or 2gR expands (Trap vs aLive, Icarus, Code A).
It was off 2gate robo expand, and again, 100% sure it was Ohana not Icarus.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 13 2013 21:42 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 21:05 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2013 20:50 Teoita wrote:
There are no recent guides. I'm sure SOME Protoss, possibly parting, recently immortal busted some other Terran on Ohana, but i don't remember which tournament it was from nor who he was playing T_T Squirtle vs YoDa, Icarus, Code S RO32 and PartinG vs ByuN, Icarus, Code S RO32 were proxied Immortal busts. The other instances of Immortal attacks I saw were done out of 1g (Tear vs Yoda, Icarus, Code A; Bogus vs Argo, Caldeum, SPL, with a proxied Robotics) or 2gR expands (Trap vs aLive, Icarus, Code A). It was off 2gate robo expand, and again, 100% sure it was Ohana not Icarus.
Parting vs Yoda on Ohana from IEM Katowice?
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On February 13 2013 21:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 21:42 Teoita wrote:On February 13 2013 21:05 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2013 20:50 Teoita wrote:
There are no recent guides. I'm sure SOME Protoss, possibly parting, recently immortal busted some other Terran on Ohana, but i don't remember which tournament it was from nor who he was playing T_T Squirtle vs YoDa, Icarus, Code S RO32 and PartinG vs ByuN, Icarus, Code S RO32 were proxied Immortal busts. The other instances of Immortal attacks I saw were done out of 1g (Tear vs Yoda, Icarus, Code A; Bogus vs Argo, Caldeum, SPL, with a proxied Robotics) or 2gR expands (Trap vs aLive, Icarus, Code A). It was off 2gate robo expand, and again, 100% sure it was Ohana not Icarus. Parting vs Yoda on Ohana from IEM Katowice?
Ah yes, PartinG vs Dream*.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 13 2013 21:49 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 21:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 13 2013 21:42 Teoita wrote:On February 13 2013 21:05 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2013 20:50 Teoita wrote:
There are no recent guides. I'm sure SOME Protoss, possibly parting, recently immortal busted some other Terran on Ohana, but i don't remember which tournament it was from nor who he was playing T_T Squirtle vs YoDa, Icarus, Code S RO32 and PartinG vs ByuN, Icarus, Code S RO32 were proxied Immortal busts. The other instances of Immortal attacks I saw were done out of 1g (Tear vs Yoda, Icarus, Code A; Bogus vs Argo, Caldeum, SPL, with a proxied Robotics) or 2gR expands (Trap vs aLive, Icarus, Code A). It was off 2gate robo expand, and again, 100% sure it was Ohana not Icarus. Parting vs Yoda on Ohana from IEM Katowice? Ah yes, PartinG vs Dream*.
He played both of them, not sure who he did the immortal bust against but it was one of them. Could be Dream, yeah.
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On February 13 2013 21:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 21:49 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2013 21:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 13 2013 21:42 Teoita wrote:On February 13 2013 21:05 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2013 20:50 Teoita wrote:
There are no recent guides. I'm sure SOME Protoss, possibly parting, recently immortal busted some other Terran on Ohana, but i don't remember which tournament it was from nor who he was playing T_T Squirtle vs YoDa, Icarus, Code S RO32 and PartinG vs ByuN, Icarus, Code S RO32 were proxied Immortal busts. The other instances of Immortal attacks I saw were done out of 1g (Tear vs Yoda, Icarus, Code A; Bogus vs Argo, Caldeum, SPL, with a proxied Robotics) or 2gR expands (Trap vs aLive, Icarus, Code A). It was off 2gate robo expand, and again, 100% sure it was Ohana not Icarus. Parting vs Yoda on Ohana from IEM Katowice? Ah yes, PartinG vs Dream*. He played both of them, not sure who he did the immortal bust against but it was one of them. Could be Dream, yeah.
It was Dream, I just checked the replay pack. He did not play YoDa on Ohana.
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Austria24417 Posts
I see I see, Dream it is then. All I remember was that I wanted to try that too, lol
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Against PvT is there any guides out there that list some timings for the MC 1 gate build order? There needs to be more in depth PvT guides!
I want to know when I should have my robo up, robo bay etc etc.
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Canada13379 Posts
On February 14 2013 03:59 kuruptt wrote:
Against PvT is there any guides out there that list some timings for the MC 1 gate build order? There needs to be more in depth PvT guides!
I want to know when I should have my robo up, robo bay etc etc.
From the OP
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136
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what units do i build after the zealot-stalker-stalker in preparation for the oncoming pressure??, doesn't really say on the liquipedia page
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 14 2013 06:27 probeater wrote:what units do i build after the zealot-stalker-stalker in preparation for the oncoming pressure??, doesn't really say on the liquipedia page
Sentries. You won't have the overwhelming amount of gateway units to take a direct engagement so you'll need to rely on forcefields. Depending on what you scout you might wanna make 1-2 immortals for safety but if you feel like you can skip them without taking a risk, do it. This will allow you to tech up faster.
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thx, one more question.
lets say he has more units than me and i wont be able to take a direct engagement (which typically i wont), wont my expo die? then when im on top of my ramp ff-ing till i get enough units to push him out..do i expand again asap or get collo tech first? besides if he decides to expand behind it im pretty much dead
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EPT
