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On February 10 2013 20:20 FireMonkey wrote:
In all matchups what builds do i need to handle early pressure? I am a macro oriented player and my playstyle is defensive macro, so i just hold off enemy attacks and expand heaps so that any attack i do is not all in, my games (other than PvZ) last 20-30 mins in which im 4-7 bases. I don't like all ins. But I find that in PvT pre 10 min pressure is what kills, their marine maruader pressure <10 min mark demolishes me, I usually go for a 1 gate fe into 3 gate robo, but when they do crap like 3 rax i lose. When should i be putting my robo suport bay? i usually do it after my third robo production cycle (usually 1 obs > 2 immortals > support bay > collosus).
In PvP I generally beat the 4 gate with 3 gate robo expand. but i have trouble with blink stalker all in.
In PvZ my worst matchup, I can never get to 3 bases because their attacks are way too powerful for what zerg are supposed to be.. zerg are supposed to attack wave after wave relentlessly, yet it seems now one max roach push can just kill you. I don't know how the hell i beat max roach push, Immortals get focused down and stalkers do jack shit, and if i do push it back, they mass lings and kill stalkers. Has the state of the matchup really resorted to all ins? I know that if i macro game a zerg into late game I will dom him because late game macro is my strong point. and I know how to kill their late game comps - bl infestor. In the mid game if they don't roach push, i get my third up then BAM mass muta out of no where, the thing is i scout the spire so i get stalkers and cannons but as usual they do nothing. and the mass lings come into play and just demonise me. Collosus get sniped my muta, and it's too early/late to go for HT.
I tihnk i can get higher in leagues if i work on my early game handling and my PvZ so what viable/safe builds can i do there used to be a pvz build i did but it's outdated now and wont work anymore.
1. You should start your robo bay by 7:30 with your build. I normally don't make any immortal and go straight for the colossus after 2 observers to know exactly where his army is and if there is a multipronged drop coming.
2. 3 gate then robo? I don't see any point in doing this, 1 gate then robo then +2 gates is better, faster scouting and faster immortal.
3. Calm down, the midgame in PvZ should be yours. If he is playing standard, he can't have a decent amount of roaches in your base before 10:00. Since you should be taking your third base by 9:00 (without stargate pressure) you have all the time to set up a gateway wall with 1-2 cannons behind and a small army of zealots-sentries + 1-2 immortals to defend it. If he cut drones, there's no point in taking a third base, wait and get more immortals. If your immortals get focused down there's something wrong, because with your wall + force fields zerg shouldn't be able to even touch them.
Mutas can be annoying, I remember when i was platinum/diamond i would lose every time i met them in ladder no matter what. Then you learn how to deal with them and it gets much easier. You need good scouting/game sense to know if they are coming. Every build should already have blink in research at that point and a third base up. What i do is completely close my third base and play very defensively with cannons/stalkers (maybe some zealot warp in but it's risky) until i get a good amount of HTs with storms, then move out leaving at home 4-5 of them. Of course immediately stop your colossus tech if you were going for it since they are useless against mutas. Most of the times I just roflstomp everything with that push (chargelot+archon+ht+blink stalker) but if zerg gets a ton of spinecrawlers then you need to take 4th and 5th base and get all the tech you need (mothership, dts etc).
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Hi, I'm a platinum player who has just switched over from terran. I have builds in all 3 matchups, but what I really need to know are the answers to these questions.
How is protoss macro different from terran macro?
Do I need to consistently make units out of my warp gates as much as possible or can I just add more warp gates for when I need them?
Any tips on protoss micro?
Anything else I should know?
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On February 11 2013 07:10 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 20:20 FireMonkey wrote:
In all matchups what builds do i need to handle early pressure? I am a macro oriented player and my playstyle is defensive macro, so i just hold off enemy attacks and expand heaps so that any attack i do is not all in, my games (other than PvZ) last 20-30 mins in which im 4-7 bases. I don't like all ins. But I find that in PvT pre 10 min pressure is what kills, their marine maruader pressure <10 min mark demolishes me, I usually go for a 1 gate fe into 3 gate robo, but when they do crap like 3 rax i lose. When should i be putting my robo suport bay? i usually do it after my third robo production cycle (usually 1 obs > 2 immortals > support bay > collosus).
In PvP I generally beat the 4 gate with 3 gate robo expand. but i have trouble with blink stalker all in.
In PvZ my worst matchup, I can never get to 3 bases because their attacks are way too powerful for what zerg are supposed to be.. zerg are supposed to attack wave after wave relentlessly, yet it seems now one max roach push can just kill you. I don't know how the hell i beat max roach push, Immortals get focused down and stalkers do jack shit, and if i do push it back, they mass lings and kill stalkers. Has the state of the matchup really resorted to all ins? I know that if i macro game a zerg into late game I will dom him because late game macro is my strong point. and I know how to kill their late game comps - bl infestor. In the mid game if they don't roach push, i get my third up then BAM mass muta out of no where, the thing is i scout the spire so i get stalkers and cannons but as usual they do nothing. and the mass lings come into play and just demonise me. Collosus get sniped my muta, and it's too early/late to go for HT.
I tihnk i can get higher in leagues if i work on my early game handling and my PvZ so what viable/safe builds can i do there used to be a pvz build i did but it's outdated now and wont work anymore. 1. You should start your robo bay by 7:30 with your build. I normally don't make any immortal and go straight for the colossus after 2 observers to know exactly where his army is and if there is a multipronged drop coming. 2. 3 gate then robo? I don't see any point in doing this, 1 gate then robo then +2 gates is better, faster scouting and faster immortal. 3. Calm down, the midgame in PvZ should be yours. If he is playing standard, he can't have a decent amount of roaches in your base before 10:00. Since you should be taking your third base by 9:00 (without stargate pressure) you have all the time to set up a gateway wall with 1-2 cannons behind and a small army of zealots-sentries + 1-2 immortals to defend it. If he cut drones, there's no point in taking a third base, wait and get more immortals. If your immortals get focused down there's something wrong, because with your wall + force fields zerg shouldn't be able to even touch them. Mutas can be annoying, I remember when i was platinum/diamond i would lose every time i met them in ladder no matter what. Then you learn how to deal with them and it gets much easier. You need good scouting/game sense to know if they are coming. Every build should already have blink in research at that point and a third base up. What i do is completely close my third base and play very defensively with cannons/stalkers (maybe some zealot warp in but it's risky) until i get a good amount of HTs with storms, then move out leaving at home 4-5 of them. Of course immediately stop your colossus tech if you were going for it since they are useless against mutas. Most of the times I just roflstomp everything with that push (chargelot+archon+ht+blink stalker) but if zerg gets a ton of spinecrawlers then you need to take 4th and 5th base and get all the tech you need (mothership, dts etc).
Hey I am only a gold player ATM but I think my advice should help as I used to have problems exactly like yours! So take it with a grain of salt if you want.
In PvT it really is pretty reactive. If you see a 2 baracks play incoming you should build 2 extra gates right away and make sure to get as much units as you can, mostly stalkers. Don't expand and just push out units when you scout this opening, I think it's generally pretty easy to defend if you do it right. It does take some practice. With the 1 gate FE you should be scouting with your initial zealot + stalker right away to see what unit makeup he has. If you see lots of marines or mauraders it is going to be a early push. You should again build 2 gate ways right away while expanding. Robo facility after the 2 gateways and just keep pumping out units as well. In pVt against early aggression you MUST try to not miss warping in units. I learnt that when I pump out units more during early agression I can mostly defend almost any attack if I don't mess up. If you defended it well you should be ahead in the game and just macro up and take control of the map and push out when you have 3 Colo out with +2 armor. Pretty standard!
in PvZ Just practice the Immortal all In and win most of the games. It is a good opening to learn as it really focuses on the fundamentals of the game. This is by far my favorite strategy to use because it gives you so much practice. You have to be on top of not supply blocking yourself. Then when you push out you need really good micro with the forcefields to win.
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On February 11 2013 09:35 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:
Hi, I'm a platinum player who has just switched over from terran. I have builds in all 3 matchups, but what I really need to know are the answers to these questions.
How is protoss macro different from terran macro?
Do I need to consistently make units out of my warp gates as much as possible or can I just add more warp gates for when I need them?
Any tips on protoss micro?
Anything else I should know?
The main macro differences are chrono boost and warpgate. Unlike mules, chrono boost can be used both on probes (economy) and unit production, which gives you flexibility: for example if you want to play greedier you chrono only probes, while if you scout a strong push coming you chrono only units. Warpgates have the advantage of warping units wherever and whenever you want. So, to answer your second question, it's preferable to have a lot of them, more than you would need if you warp in constantly, so that you can stop building units for a while, focusing on economy/tech, and then immediately catching up with the unit count when you need it. Also, having a lot of warpgates means that you can warp in units directly in key locations, for example if you are getting dropped or if you want to warp in some zealots offensively.
Well, micro. In platinum league I don't think you should focus a lot on micro so, you can put all your army in the same hotkey except obviously high templars and mothership, which go in separate ones and in follow command to your army. Remember to always activate guardiand shield in engagements (it may seem stupid but it's very easy to forget it). Split your army against splash damage (colossi in pvp, fungals in pvz) as you should be used to doing with terran.
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Austria24422 Posts
Can't hurt to know basic protoss rules of engagement.
1) and most important: zealots in the front, always always always. Zealots are strong but their role isn't necessarily to kill units. Their biggest strength lies in their synergy with strong attacking units such as archons, colossi, HT. However, zealots have high DPS themselves so if they do manage to close the gap, tank damage while attacking and your other units are firing as well, that's when you're at maximum efficiency.
2) As said above, guardian shield. Remember that your units are expensive, especially in the early game. Guardian shield can and does make a difference.
3) Protect your colossi from AA units. For example in PvZ, if the zerg makes corruptors against a stalker/colossus army, your stalkers should only have one goal: killing the corruptors before they take down colossi. If your colossi stay alive, you'll likely win the engagement.
4) Blink micro. You wanna get the most out of every single stalker, so blink them back as late as possible. That's not always the case though. For example if you've invested a lot in armor upgrades and not shields, you might wanna blink them back once their shields are gone because your stalkers lose their upgrade strength if they have no actual health.
5) Fancy stuff. This is the kind of micro you see from players like Parting and HerO, for example picking up units in a warp prism to save them if they're being attacked. This acts like blink in a way that it instantly saves a unit dodging enemy bullets. You can also pick up your own units with phoenixes but I wouldn't rely on that much, more of a spur of the moment thing from the best of the best 
6) and also very important: don't focus fire with your whole army. Why? Because zealots will block each other. As dumb as it sounds, it's usually better to simply a-move zealots and target with the rest of your army individually.
7) Forcefields. Those can be tricky as you have to quickly evaluate how strong your army is to know how much you can forcefield in. If you FF in too many units, your core army might take damage and that's preeeetty bad for you. You also have to reactively use the range of your units correctly. You want zealot pressing units against the FF wall and everything else being untouched. So move your core army back if you see that they're in range of enemy units so they can get free shots in. If you can trade energy + minerals for enemy units, you'll be very cost effective.
8) Storms. You want to place storms as deep into an enemy army as possible. Hit as many units as possible but sometimes it's better to use storms similarly to FFs, in the back of an enemy army so they won't be able to kite your zealots unless they run through the storm. That way you're making sure that they won't be able to run out of your storm while your own units run into it.
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What is the optimal number of Sentries in a normal macro game? In PvP, I normally have just one Sentry for most of the early game, then later I try to maintain three to four Sentries in my army. Is this optimal? In PvZ, I normally do FFE -> 4 Gate Robo -> Third, and as I take my third I normally try to shoot for about five to six Sentries with Zealots, Immortals, and Stalkers to fend off Roaches. In PvT, I usually keep four to five Sentries.
Are these numbers optimal? How many Sentries should I have for standard macro games in these matchups?
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Austria24422 Posts
On February 12 2013 02:32 fNacks wrote:
What is the optimal number of Sentries in a normal macro game? In PvP, I normally have just one Sentry for most of the early game, then later I try to maintain three to four Sentries in my army. Is this optimal? In PvZ, I normally do FFE -> 4 Gate Robo -> Third, and as I take my third I normally try to shoot for about five to six Sentries with Zealots, Immortals, and Stalkers to fend off Roaches. In PvT, I usually keep four to five Sentries.
Are these numbers optimal? How many Sentries should I have for standard macro games in these matchups?
Hm... that's a tricky one. I'd say it always depends on what's coming at you. You generally want a lot of sentries if you're expecting pressure on the ground that you couldn't face in an open battle. You might need to forcefield repeatedly to survive. Just be aware that sentries become less useful the longer the game goes and that they're gas heavy. The fewer sentries you make, the more gas you'll have available for tech which means => the fewer Sentries you make, the faster you can tech. Sentries are a unit you generally don't want to make unless you need them. So make only as many as you estimate you'll need. Keep 1-2 in your army for guardian shield though.
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Italy12247 Posts
As a general guideline:
PvP: 2-3 in early game depending on your build, one in lategame for guardian shield.
PvZ: about 6 for 3base builds, 10+ for immortal/sentry allins.
PvT: 3 for most macro builds; generally 4+ for 2base allins/timings (which are super varied so it's impossible to have an exact number).
edit: fuck this time i got sniped.
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On February 12 2013 02:45 Teoita wrote:
As a general guideline:
PvP: 2-3 in early game depending on your build, one in lategame for guardian shield.
PvZ: about 6 for 3base builds, 10+ for immortal/sentry allins.
PvT: 3 for most macro builds; generally 4+ for 2base allins/timings (which are super varied so it's impossible to have an exact number).
edit: fuck this time i got sniped.
I like that you threw in "one in lategame" for PvP. Definitely a great idea, but very much neglected, even at the highest levels of play. The same should be applied to PvT, too (late game, when our orignal sentries are killed, on 4 plus bases, we rarely remake any).
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Can you attack a Terran with only HT and no Colossus? Any time I try to do this I lose really badly.
I'm finding that it's fine to open HT because they're great for defense, but whenever I try to attack with them the Terran simply kites away until all my zealots are dead then my push falls on its face. HT's cant ever seem to get storms in because he's always out of range (they lag behind army).
Top 8 Diamond Toss here. Am I missing something?
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Italy12247 Posts
Attacking into a Terran army straight up with templar is pretty hard. Templar are really slow and stimmed bio is really fast, so often times you just end up getting kited all the way across the map. On the other hand, if you are playing defensively it's much easier to land storms (pull main army back, send templar forward, land storm as bio runs for your main army).
On the other hand, templar tech opens up a ton of harassment, wether it's chargelot warp ins or storm drops. A great game (in my opinion, one of the best to learn PvT) to learn from is Rain vs Taeja on Antiga.
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What to do when terran pressures before 10 minutes and gets a late expo? usually my tech is so late because of all the pressure, i just get roflstomped once they have stim/medivacs...
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On February 13 2013 07:25 probeater wrote:
What to do when terran pressures before 10 minutes and gets a late expo? usually my tech is so late because of all the pressure, i just get roflstomped once they have stim/medivacs...
Replay(s) would help. Learn a proper 1 Gate expand build, learn to execute it properly. 3 Gate's then a Robo, all before 6 mins.
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http://drop.sc/304286
alright here's a replay, though i wasnt playing very well in this one since i was angry
i waited too long to expand, thought he was all-inning me, turns out he was doing everything normal in the 10 min push except for expanding =/ i was confused
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I could point out all the small errors you made, but that wouldn't be as useful as simply telling you to learn a better build. What league are you in?
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platinum
just tell me all the small errors i made and what i should have done instead (but dont get too nit-picky)
also, what is the build i should do against a 1 base terran?
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On February 13 2013 03:52 Teoita wrote:
Attacking into a Terran army straight up with templar is pretty hard. Templar are really slow and stimmed bio is really fast, so often times you just end up getting kited all the way across the map. On the other hand, if you are playing defensively it's much easier to land storms (pull main army back, send templar forward, land storm as bio runs for your main army).
On the other hand, templar tech opens up a ton of harassment, wether it's chargelot warp ins or storm drops. A great game (in my opinion, one of the best to learn PvT) to learn from is Rain vs Taeja on Antiga.
Where can I find this replay?
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Italy12247 Posts
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A page ago I was high bronze; I'm now high silver. Having lots of fun.
I had my first game against a sky-toss composition and was beaten rather dramatically. Its the first game in a while where I have not been able to understand what I could/should have done.
I scouted it earlier so knew it was coming, and thought that archon and stalker would be a good composition to counter (plus some zealot and colossus to take out his ground army). Turns out this was a big mistake. My economy was a lot better but no matter how much I reinforced, I just got smacked down again and again to probes, and could barely dent his fleet.
Is there an way to beat sky-toss as protoss without yourself taking to the air? What is a good composition?
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EPT
