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On February 09 2013 04:08 Gumbi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 01:23 ZeromuS wrote:On February 09 2013 00:06 Gumbi wrote:On February 08 2013 17:55 Teoita wrote:
Ah so it's basically the 2gate robo immortal bust. It really doesn't have much to do with the Terran going CC first, it works vs 1rax fe too. Additionally, Naniwa (usually) doesn't probe scout, so i doubt he could have seen the CC first and reacted with that build.
Also, you are NOT behind a Terran going CC first with 1gate FE. The difference in income and worker count between 1rax FE and CC first isn't all that big. I dunno, that depends on what kind of 1 Gate expand you go for. Standard 1 Gate expands put Toss economically slightly behind Terran. Any time the other person makes their nex/oc/hatch before you, you will *technically* be behind in economy. But the difference is so small if you go zealot/stalker/27nexus you will be more than fine against non gas openings. If you go for the MC 1 gate FE in its safest iteration (zealot/stalker/stalker/30nexus/30gas/30gate/30gate/30robo) then you will be a little behind 1 rax FE just because you cut probes for so so long. This won't make much of a difference below masters though. Also, teo's point is that 1 rax FE compared to CC first the econ difference is minimal so that a standard 1 gate FE will be fine against either. I know, I'm just saying, MC's one is basically obsolete as it's too safe. The more you cut early game vs Terran, the harder their Medivac timings will hit you. I really like Naniwa's vs T style. He has many, varied, reasonably greedy vs Terran openings, with Gateway units and chronoes balanced out very nicely, and a cool scout-less style. I would never Gate Core Zealot Stalker 13 scout expand vs Terran. It's way too safe. It's possible to be a lot greedier and still be safe against everything. Maybe cut the Zealot (based on the SCV scout timing, or lack thereof), scout after Core/second Pylon. Terran's drop their cc at around 3 mins, and can get away without scouting early. It would hurt my brain to play 13 scout, zealot stalker expand at 4.45 vs that when I know I can get an earlier expansion (and still be as safe). In fact, I play A LOT greedier than this on NA server recently, and it's working out quite well. 3 Chronoes on Nexus, 13 Gate, rally 17th Probe for gas, use this Probe to make Nexus and Pylon at nat, and scout Terran nat with this Probe and adapt accordingly, This build is suuuper greedy. I love it  Of course, I am speaking of Master's or higher, this would not be advice for lower leagues.
Can you tell us this magical build that's much greedier than 13 scout --> zealot stalker expand and is safe against everything?
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On February 09 2013 04:30 city42 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 04:08 Gumbi wrote:On February 09 2013 01:23 ZeromuS wrote:On February 09 2013 00:06 Gumbi wrote:On February 08 2013 17:55 Teoita wrote:
Ah so it's basically the 2gate robo immortal bust. It really doesn't have much to do with the Terran going CC first, it works vs 1rax fe too. Additionally, Naniwa (usually) doesn't probe scout, so i doubt he could have seen the CC first and reacted with that build.
Also, you are NOT behind a Terran going CC first with 1gate FE. The difference in income and worker count between 1rax FE and CC first isn't all that big. I dunno, that depends on what kind of 1 Gate expand you go for. Standard 1 Gate expands put Toss economically slightly behind Terran. Any time the other person makes their nex/oc/hatch before you, you will *technically* be behind in economy. But the difference is so small if you go zealot/stalker/27nexus you will be more than fine against non gas openings. If you go for the MC 1 gate FE in its safest iteration (zealot/stalker/stalker/30nexus/30gas/30gate/30gate/30robo) then you will be a little behind 1 rax FE just because you cut probes for so so long. This won't make much of a difference below masters though. Also, teo's point is that 1 rax FE compared to CC first the econ difference is minimal so that a standard 1 gate FE will be fine against either. I know, I'm just saying, MC's one is basically obsolete as it's too safe. The more you cut early game vs Terran, the harder their Medivac timings will hit you. I really like Naniwa's vs T style. He has many, varied, reasonably greedy vs Terran openings, with Gateway units and chronoes balanced out very nicely, and a cool scout-less style. I would never Gate Core Zealot Stalker 13 scout expand vs Terran. It's way too safe. It's possible to be a lot greedier and still be safe against everything. Maybe cut the Zealot (based on the SCV scout timing, or lack thereof), scout after Core/second Pylon. Terran's drop their cc at around 3 mins, and can get away without scouting early. It would hurt my brain to play 13 scout, zealot stalker expand at 4.45 vs that when I know I can get an earlier expansion (and still be as safe). In fact, I play A LOT greedier than this on NA server recently, and it's working out quite well. 3 Chronoes on Nexus, 13 Gate, rally 17th Probe for gas, use this Probe to make Nexus and Pylon at nat, and scout Terran nat with this Probe and adapt accordingly, This build is suuuper greedy. I love it Of course, I am speaking of Master's or higher, this would not be advice for lower leagues. Can you tell us this magical build that's much greedier than 13 scout --> zealot stalker expand and is safe against everything?
He says it in his post.. 13gate 17gas 17nexus 17pylon then scout with the probe. Not sure when he gets his zlot/core though :p
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On February 09 2013 04:51 JCKE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 04:30 city42 wrote:On February 09 2013 04:08 Gumbi wrote:On February 09 2013 01:23 ZeromuS wrote:On February 09 2013 00:06 Gumbi wrote:On February 08 2013 17:55 Teoita wrote:
Ah so it's basically the 2gate robo immortal bust. It really doesn't have much to do with the Terran going CC first, it works vs 1rax fe too. Additionally, Naniwa (usually) doesn't probe scout, so i doubt he could have seen the CC first and reacted with that build.
Also, you are NOT behind a Terran going CC first with 1gate FE. The difference in income and worker count between 1rax FE and CC first isn't all that big. I dunno, that depends on what kind of 1 Gate expand you go for. Standard 1 Gate expands put Toss economically slightly behind Terran. Any time the other person makes their nex/oc/hatch before you, you will *technically* be behind in economy. But the difference is so small if you go zealot/stalker/27nexus you will be more than fine against non gas openings. If you go for the MC 1 gate FE in its safest iteration (zealot/stalker/stalker/30nexus/30gas/30gate/30gate/30robo) then you will be a little behind 1 rax FE just because you cut probes for so so long. This won't make much of a difference below masters though. Also, teo's point is that 1 rax FE compared to CC first the econ difference is minimal so that a standard 1 gate FE will be fine against either. I know, I'm just saying, MC's one is basically obsolete as it's too safe. The more you cut early game vs Terran, the harder their Medivac timings will hit you. I really like Naniwa's vs T style. He has many, varied, reasonably greedy vs Terran openings, with Gateway units and chronoes balanced out very nicely, and a cool scout-less style. I would never Gate Core Zealot Stalker 13 scout expand vs Terran. It's way too safe. It's possible to be a lot greedier and still be safe against everything. Maybe cut the Zealot (based on the SCV scout timing, or lack thereof), scout after Core/second Pylon. Terran's drop their cc at around 3 mins, and can get away without scouting early. It would hurt my brain to play 13 scout, zealot stalker expand at 4.45 vs that when I know I can get an earlier expansion (and still be as safe). In fact, I play A LOT greedier than this on NA server recently, and it's working out quite well. 3 Chronoes on Nexus, 13 Gate, rally 17th Probe for gas, use this Probe to make Nexus and Pylon at nat, and scout Terran nat with this Probe and adapt accordingly, This build is suuuper greedy. I love it Of course, I am speaking of Master's or higher, this would not be advice for lower leagues. Can you tell us this magical build that's much greedier than 13 scout --> zealot stalker expand and is safe against everything? He says it in his post.. 13gate 17gas 17nexus 17pylon then scout with the probe. Not sure when he gets his zlot/core though :p
That build is not safe against everything, so it must be something else.
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On February 09 2013 04:59 city42 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 04:51 JCKE wrote:On February 09 2013 04:30 city42 wrote:On February 09 2013 04:08 Gumbi wrote:On February 09 2013 01:23 ZeromuS wrote:On February 09 2013 00:06 Gumbi wrote:On February 08 2013 17:55 Teoita wrote:
Ah so it's basically the 2gate robo immortal bust. It really doesn't have much to do with the Terran going CC first, it works vs 1rax fe too. Additionally, Naniwa (usually) doesn't probe scout, so i doubt he could have seen the CC first and reacted with that build.
Also, you are NOT behind a Terran going CC first with 1gate FE. The difference in income and worker count between 1rax FE and CC first isn't all that big. I dunno, that depends on what kind of 1 Gate expand you go for. Standard 1 Gate expands put Toss economically slightly behind Terran. Any time the other person makes their nex/oc/hatch before you, you will *technically* be behind in economy. But the difference is so small if you go zealot/stalker/27nexus you will be more than fine against non gas openings. If you go for the MC 1 gate FE in its safest iteration (zealot/stalker/stalker/30nexus/30gas/30gate/30gate/30robo) then you will be a little behind 1 rax FE just because you cut probes for so so long. This won't make much of a difference below masters though. Also, teo's point is that 1 rax FE compared to CC first the econ difference is minimal so that a standard 1 gate FE will be fine against either. I know, I'm just saying, MC's one is basically obsolete as it's too safe. The more you cut early game vs Terran, the harder their Medivac timings will hit you. I really like Naniwa's vs T style. He has many, varied, reasonably greedy vs Terran openings, with Gateway units and chronoes balanced out very nicely, and a cool scout-less style. I would never Gate Core Zealot Stalker 13 scout expand vs Terran. It's way too safe. It's possible to be a lot greedier and still be safe against everything. Maybe cut the Zealot (based on the SCV scout timing, or lack thereof), scout after Core/second Pylon. Terran's drop their cc at around 3 mins, and can get away without scouting early. It would hurt my brain to play 13 scout, zealot stalker expand at 4.45 vs that when I know I can get an earlier expansion (and still be as safe). In fact, I play A LOT greedier than this on NA server recently, and it's working out quite well. 3 Chronoes on Nexus, 13 Gate, rally 17th Probe for gas, use this Probe to make Nexus and Pylon at nat, and scout Terran nat with this Probe and adapt accordingly, This build is suuuper greedy. I love it Of course, I am speaking of Master's or higher, this would not be advice for lower leagues. Can you tell us this magical build that's much greedier than 13 scout --> zealot stalker expand and is safe against everything? He says it in his post.. 13gate 17gas 17nexus 17pylon then scout with the probe. Not sure when he gets his zlot/core though :p That build is not safe against everything, so it must be something else.
he hasn't encountered proxy marauder yet...just give him time
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On February 09 2013 04:51 JCKE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 04:30 city42 wrote:On February 09 2013 04:08 Gumbi wrote:On February 09 2013 01:23 ZeromuS wrote:On February 09 2013 00:06 Gumbi wrote:On February 08 2013 17:55 Teoita wrote:
Ah so it's basically the 2gate robo immortal bust. It really doesn't have much to do with the Terran going CC first, it works vs 1rax fe too. Additionally, Naniwa (usually) doesn't probe scout, so i doubt he could have seen the CC first and reacted with that build.
Also, you are NOT behind a Terran going CC first with 1gate FE. The difference in income and worker count between 1rax FE and CC first isn't all that big. I dunno, that depends on what kind of 1 Gate expand you go for. Standard 1 Gate expands put Toss economically slightly behind Terran. Any time the other person makes their nex/oc/hatch before you, you will *technically* be behind in economy. But the difference is so small if you go zealot/stalker/27nexus you will be more than fine against non gas openings. If you go for the MC 1 gate FE in its safest iteration (zealot/stalker/stalker/30nexus/30gas/30gate/30gate/30robo) then you will be a little behind 1 rax FE just because you cut probes for so so long. This won't make much of a difference below masters though. Also, teo's point is that 1 rax FE compared to CC first the econ difference is minimal so that a standard 1 gate FE will be fine against either. I know, I'm just saying, MC's one is basically obsolete as it's too safe. The more you cut early game vs Terran, the harder their Medivac timings will hit you. I really like Naniwa's vs T style. He has many, varied, reasonably greedy vs Terran openings, with Gateway units and chronoes balanced out very nicely, and a cool scout-less style. I would never Gate Core Zealot Stalker 13 scout expand vs Terran. It's way too safe. It's possible to be a lot greedier and still be safe against everything. Maybe cut the Zealot (based on the SCV scout timing, or lack thereof), scout after Core/second Pylon. Terran's drop their cc at around 3 mins, and can get away without scouting early. It would hurt my brain to play 13 scout, zealot stalker expand at 4.45 vs that when I know I can get an earlier expansion (and still be as safe). In fact, I play A LOT greedier than this on NA server recently, and it's working out quite well. 3 Chronoes on Nexus, 13 Gate, rally 17th Probe for gas, use this Probe to make Nexus and Pylon at nat, and scout Terran nat with this Probe and adapt accordingly, This build is suuuper greedy. I love it Of course, I am speaking of Master's or higher, this would not be advice for lower leagues. Can you tell us this magical build that's much greedier than 13 scout --> zealot stalker expand and is safe against everything? He says it in his post.. 13gate 17gas 17nexus 17pylon then scout with the probe. Not sure when he gets his zlot/core though :p
Lolno :D That's my style, but of course it's really greedy. Really though,there's very little that outright beats it. Blind 2 Rax SCV pull is almost an automatic win, though (on 2 players maps anyways). But of course, the Terran is flipping a coin more than I am in that position, so what can I do. Indeed, my Core is only delayed 30 seconds with this build (I get it down at 3.10), and my Nexus is started before 3mins, so the extra Chrono more than makes up for the slower wg timing,
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On February 09 2013 05:04 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 04:59 city42 wrote:On February 09 2013 04:51 JCKE wrote:On February 09 2013 04:30 city42 wrote:On February 09 2013 04:08 Gumbi wrote:On February 09 2013 01:23 ZeromuS wrote:On February 09 2013 00:06 Gumbi wrote:On February 08 2013 17:55 Teoita wrote:
Ah so it's basically the 2gate robo immortal bust. It really doesn't have much to do with the Terran going CC first, it works vs 1rax fe too. Additionally, Naniwa (usually) doesn't probe scout, so i doubt he could have seen the CC first and reacted with that build.
Also, you are NOT behind a Terran going CC first with 1gate FE. The difference in income and worker count between 1rax FE and CC first isn't all that big. I dunno, that depends on what kind of 1 Gate expand you go for. Standard 1 Gate expands put Toss economically slightly behind Terran. Any time the other person makes their nex/oc/hatch before you, you will *technically* be behind in economy. But the difference is so small if you go zealot/stalker/27nexus you will be more than fine against non gas openings. If you go for the MC 1 gate FE in its safest iteration (zealot/stalker/stalker/30nexus/30gas/30gate/30gate/30robo) then you will be a little behind 1 rax FE just because you cut probes for so so long. This won't make much of a difference below masters though. Also, teo's point is that 1 rax FE compared to CC first the econ difference is minimal so that a standard 1 gate FE will be fine against either. I know, I'm just saying, MC's one is basically obsolete as it's too safe. The more you cut early game vs Terran, the harder their Medivac timings will hit you. I really like Naniwa's vs T style. He has many, varied, reasonably greedy vs Terran openings, with Gateway units and chronoes balanced out very nicely, and a cool scout-less style. I would never Gate Core Zealot Stalker 13 scout expand vs Terran. It's way too safe. It's possible to be a lot greedier and still be safe against everything. Maybe cut the Zealot (based on the SCV scout timing, or lack thereof), scout after Core/second Pylon. Terran's drop their cc at around 3 mins, and can get away without scouting early. It would hurt my brain to play 13 scout, zealot stalker expand at 4.45 vs that when I know I can get an earlier expansion (and still be as safe). In fact, I play A LOT greedier than this on NA server recently, and it's working out quite well. 3 Chronoes on Nexus, 13 Gate, rally 17th Probe for gas, use this Probe to make Nexus and Pylon at nat, and scout Terran nat with this Probe and adapt accordingly, This build is suuuper greedy. I love it Of course, I am speaking of Master's or higher, this would not be advice for lower leagues. Can you tell us this magical build that's much greedier than 13 scout --> zealot stalker expand and is safe against everything? He says it in his post.. 13gate 17gas 17nexus 17pylon then scout with the probe. Not sure when he gets his zlot/core though :p That build is not safe against everything, so it must be something else. he hasn't encountered proxy marauder yet...just give him time
Micro ftw If anyone is willing to practise the opening with me I'm completely open to it
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Italy12246 Posts
On February 09 2013 04:30 city42 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 04:08 Gumbi wrote:On February 09 2013 01:23 ZeromuS wrote:On February 09 2013 00:06 Gumbi wrote:On February 08 2013 17:55 Teoita wrote:
Ah so it's basically the 2gate robo immortal bust. It really doesn't have much to do with the Terran going CC first, it works vs 1rax fe too. Additionally, Naniwa (usually) doesn't probe scout, so i doubt he could have seen the CC first and reacted with that build.
Also, you are NOT behind a Terran going CC first with 1gate FE. The difference in income and worker count between 1rax FE and CC first isn't all that big. I dunno, that depends on what kind of 1 Gate expand you go for. Standard 1 Gate expands put Toss economically slightly behind Terran. Any time the other person makes their nex/oc/hatch before you, you will *technically* be behind in economy. But the difference is so small if you go zealot/stalker/27nexus you will be more than fine against non gas openings. If you go for the MC 1 gate FE in its safest iteration (zealot/stalker/stalker/30nexus/30gas/30gate/30gate/30robo) then you will be a little behind 1 rax FE just because you cut probes for so so long. This won't make much of a difference below masters though. Also, teo's point is that 1 rax FE compared to CC first the econ difference is minimal so that a standard 1 gate FE will be fine against either. I know, I'm just saying, MC's one is basically obsolete as it's too safe. The more you cut early game vs Terran, the harder their Medivac timings will hit you. I really like Naniwa's vs T style. He has many, varied, reasonably greedy vs Terran openings, with Gateway units and chronoes balanced out very nicely, and a cool scout-less style. I would never Gate Core Zealot Stalker 13 scout expand vs Terran. It's way too safe. It's possible to be a lot greedier and still be safe against everything. Maybe cut the Zealot (based on the SCV scout timing, or lack thereof), scout after Core/second Pylon. Terran's drop their cc at around 3 mins, and can get away without scouting early. It would hurt my brain to play 13 scout, zealot stalker expand at 4.45 vs that when I know I can get an earlier expansion (and still be as safe). In fact, I play A LOT greedier than this on NA server recently, and it's working out quite well. 3 Chronoes on Nexus, 13 Gate, rally 17th Probe for gas, use this Probe to make Nexus and Pylon at nat, and scout Terran nat with this Probe and adapt accordingly, This build is suuuper greedy. I love it Of course, I am speaking of Master's or higher, this would not be advice for lower leagues. Can you tell us this magical build that's much greedier than 13 scout --> zealot stalker expand and is safe against everything?
Kcdc's build is pretty good for that
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On February 09 2013 05:14 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 04:30 city42 wrote:On February 09 2013 04:08 Gumbi wrote:On February 09 2013 01:23 ZeromuS wrote:On February 09 2013 00:06 Gumbi wrote:On February 08 2013 17:55 Teoita wrote:
Ah so it's basically the 2gate robo immortal bust. It really doesn't have much to do with the Terran going CC first, it works vs 1rax fe too. Additionally, Naniwa (usually) doesn't probe scout, so i doubt he could have seen the CC first and reacted with that build.
Also, you are NOT behind a Terran going CC first with 1gate FE. The difference in income and worker count between 1rax FE and CC first isn't all that big. I dunno, that depends on what kind of 1 Gate expand you go for. Standard 1 Gate expands put Toss economically slightly behind Terran. Any time the other person makes their nex/oc/hatch before you, you will *technically* be behind in economy. But the difference is so small if you go zealot/stalker/27nexus you will be more than fine against non gas openings. If you go for the MC 1 gate FE in its safest iteration (zealot/stalker/stalker/30nexus/30gas/30gate/30gate/30robo) then you will be a little behind 1 rax FE just because you cut probes for so so long. This won't make much of a difference below masters though. Also, teo's point is that 1 rax FE compared to CC first the econ difference is minimal so that a standard 1 gate FE will be fine against either. I know, I'm just saying, MC's one is basically obsolete as it's too safe. The more you cut early game vs Terran, the harder their Medivac timings will hit you. I really like Naniwa's vs T style. He has many, varied, reasonably greedy vs Terran openings, with Gateway units and chronoes balanced out very nicely, and a cool scout-less style. I would never Gate Core Zealot Stalker 13 scout expand vs Terran. It's way too safe. It's possible to be a lot greedier and still be safe against everything. Maybe cut the Zealot (based on the SCV scout timing, or lack thereof), scout after Core/second Pylon. Terran's drop their cc at around 3 mins, and can get away without scouting early. It would hurt my brain to play 13 scout, zealot stalker expand at 4.45 vs that when I know I can get an earlier expansion (and still be as safe). In fact, I play A LOT greedier than this on NA server recently, and it's working out quite well. 3 Chronoes on Nexus, 13 Gate, rally 17th Probe for gas, use this Probe to make Nexus and Pylon at nat, and scout Terran nat with this Probe and adapt accordingly, This build is suuuper greedy. I love it Of course, I am speaking of Master's or higher, this would not be advice for lower leagues. Can you tell us this magical build that's much greedier than 13 scout --> zealot stalker expand and is safe against everything? Kcdc's build is pretty good for that
Is this the build you mean? If so, I wouldn't call it "much" greedier, since it just scouts after core instead of after gate.
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Italy12246 Posts
It also doesn't cut probes at all.
You can't play greedy while playing safe anyway...
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I personally like to do 13gate, 15gas, 16pylon, 18core, 19zlot, chrono probes, 22 nexus + scout for proxies, zlot suicide scout to check for terran expo, warpgate, stalker, then normal pvt
greedier than kcdc's opening (i think).. not sure how safe it is though :p
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On February 09 2013 05:30 Teoita wrote:
It also doesn't cut probes at all.
You can't play greedy while playing safe anyway...
Yeah that's true, a build that can hold everything can't be considered greedy. Something like "much better economically" would have been more appropriate wording on my part.
I tested that build and it gets a nexus 6-7 seconds quicker than the normal 13 scout --> 27 nexus build, and avoids the ~7 second probe cut after starting the nexus (although I still had a tiny probe cut with it on Cloud Kingdom, even with proper mining). That's a noticeable economic difference, but not significant compared to, say, the nexus before core build brought up earlier, which is what I meant by "much greedier."
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Hi there, I'm a high bronze player who has just started playing SC2. I have a quick question concerning the PvT match up, based of my last game.
I was playing a Terran who turtled with mass siege tanks and mass air-turrets after I destroyed his third. I had total map control, was mining from multiple bases, but did not know how to break him. I ended up containing him, banking approx 8k gas and minerals, building approx 30 gates, then trading very inefficiently but reinforcing continuously with gateway units. While I won in the end this did not work the best and was closer that I would have liked.
What am I meant to do to break a player who is turtling with mass tanks and air-turrets? He also had a bunch of vikings and, of course, m/m/m.
Edit: My original army was 5 or so coll, 8 or so Templar, a couple Immortals, and maxed with stalkers and zealots. It crushed his third easy but I did not know how to engage the protected bases.
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I like going chargelot/immortal/archons/hts vs mech terran.. I've seen nony go mass blink stalker/colo vs that composition and win, but i have no clue how he does it :p
If you're looking to secure a win, then just keep denying their expos (3rds/4ths if you can), while securing a bunch of bases of your own. Also, right before every engagement, try to spread out your army as much as possible so that the aoe dmg is lessened.
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Thanks for the tips. I got the deny expos down. He never got another base mining, while I always had three at full saturation. I will do the army spread in the future.
In terms of the composition you suggest, is "hts" short for high templar with storm?
As an aside, it was not really that mechy - just siege tanks and vikings, with no thors or helions.
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Canada13379 Posts
The main point I was getting at is that if you do a 27 nexus, and you aren't able to scout for gas timings, you can still react well.
I dont like nexus before core a lot of the time because if an engi bay goes down, it delays your core and it delays your nexus at that point. Granted, if you know for a fact they went CC first and you know for a fact they aren't scv scouting then sure, go ahead and nex before core 
But I like the 27 nexus because it gives me a safe place from which I can out play my opponent without worrying about blind all ins that "counter" my build, or actions on their part like the engi bay block to hurt me in the long run.
On February 09 2013 12:17 DrSayius wrote:
Thanks for the tips. I got the deny expos down. He never got another base mining, while I always had three at full saturation. I will do the army spread in the future.
In terms of the composition you suggest, is "hts" short for high templar with storm?
As an aside, it was not really that mechy - just siege tanks and vikings, with no thors or helions.
HTs is just the plural acronym for high templar. High templars = HTs. If they dont have storm, then dont make them They should always have storm, and if they dont have it, they are waiting on the upgrade to finish while building energy. If a terran attacks and the research is long ways from being done they are better off as archons btw, just something to keep in mind
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Does anyone have any recent replays/guide for immortal busts in PvT? I saw some guides, but they were more than a year old. Cheers!
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replay: PvP Ohana - DerBos is my opponent
I am at a loss at the moment. I have just played this game and have no idea what i could have done. He went 2 gas before core, 1 gate 1 robo, chronoing immortals, adding on 2 more gates. He then contained me while expanding, i tried some warp prism stuff but he just had way more stuff than me, both of us on one base. What happened here? My game plan was to go blink but after seeing he gotten immortals so fast i wasn't sure what to do.
Could I have tried to blink and kill off immortals, or counter to his base? I just don't understand why he had so many more units than me..
if someone could help here it would be greatly appreciated (this is plat, btw, i know we suck)
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On February 10 2013 03:52 probeater wrote:replay: PvP Ohana - DerBos is my opponentI am at a loss at the moment. I have just played this game and have no idea what i could have done. He went 2 gas before core, 1 gate 1 robo, chronoing immortals, adding on 2 more gates. He then contained me while expanding, i tried some warp prism stuff but he just had way more stuff than me, both of us on one base. What happened here? My game plan was to go blink but after seeing he gotten immortals so fast i wasn't sure what to do. Could I have tried to blink and kill off immortals, or counter to his base? I just don't understand why he had so many more units than me.. if someone could help here it would be greatly appreciated (this is plat, btw, i know we suck)
So.. i watched the replay and there were a couple problems.
I think you need to focus on starting your blink upgrade asap (you could have started it at 6:02 but didn't until 6:45). Also, when he was around your natural ramp at 8:36, you could have tried to FF-trap a couple units before retreating so quickly. When you realized he might consider containing you at around 10:00, you should have thrown down a robo bay for colo to break FFs, or mass blink stalkers for an aggressive attack.
The biggest issue was how you spent your gas. You had a gas bank the entire game. It's really important to find a good tech route to dump your gas.
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In all matchups what builds do i need to handle early pressure? I am a macro oriented player and my playstyle is defensive macro, so i just hold off enemy attacks and expand heaps so that any attack i do is not all in, my games (other than PvZ) last 20-30 mins in which im 4-7 bases. I don't like all ins. But I find that in PvT pre 10 min pressure is what kills, their marine maruader pressure <10 min mark demolishes me, I usually go for a 1 gate fe into 3 gate robo, but when they do crap like 3 rax i lose. When should i be putting my robo suport bay? i usually do it after my third robo production cycle (usually 1 obs > 2 immortals > support bay > collosus).
In PvP I generally beat the 4 gate with 3 gate robo expand. but i have trouble with blink stalker all in.
In PvZ my worst matchup, I can never get to 3 bases because their attacks are way too powerful for what zerg are supposed to be.. zerg are supposed to attack wave after wave relentlessly, yet it seems now one max roach push can just kill you. I don't know how the hell i beat max roach push, Immortals get focused down and stalkers do jack shit, and if i do push it back, they mass lings and kill stalkers. Has the state of the matchup really resorted to all ins? I know that if i macro game a zerg into late game I will dom him because late game macro is my strong point. and I know how to kill their late game comps - bl infestor. In the mid game if they don't roach push, i get my third up then BAM mass muta out of no where, the thing is i scout the spire so i get stalkers and cannons but as usual they do nothing. and the mass lings come into play and just demonise me. Collosus get sniped my muta, and it's too early/late to go for HT.
I tihnk i can get higher in leagues if i work on my early game handling and my PvZ so what viable/safe builds can i do there used to be a pvz build i did but it's outdated now and wont work anymore.
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Can someone please give me an efficient bo for a 6Gate all in in PvT? Thanks
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EPT
