EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 420
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llIH
Norway2147 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On February 08 2013 19:13 llIH wrote: Are there any fast zealot charge strategies that are good? I'm practicing protoss at the moment. I'm just curious if anyone here knows if it works. What matchup do you mean? | ||
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llIH
Norway2147 Posts
I mean any. Does it work against any race? | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
PvP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318673 PvZ: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=379300 PvT: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319339, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=364130 | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
Lol, did you switch to protoss because of zealot charge?  If you like having chargelots everywhere I recommend HerO's lategame PvZ. Although that might be one of the hardest things to play in SC2. | ||
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llIH
Norway2147 Posts
I just got curious about if a zealot charge rush is possible? As in researching for charge early in the game. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On February 08 2013 19:31 llIH wrote: I am not switching. I am just playing random now. And I realized I don't know a lot about protoss. From a protoss player's point of view at least. I just got curious about if a zealot charge rush is possible? As in researching for charge early in the game. Only case I can think of is a PvP chargelot archon all in of two bases but you pretty much only do that reactively if your opponent would otherwise get too far ahead in colossus count. | ||
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llIH
Norway2147 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On February 08 2013 19:38 llIH wrote: Ok thank you both for your replies. There is however the most wonky PvZ build in the world that opens with double stargate +1 void rays before warpgate into 9 gate chargelot/archon macro midgame. There's a guide on TL somewhere and zergs just melt to it like flies, can't believe how many games I've won with it against arguably better players. Insanely fun build if you wanna try it. I'll try to find it later today when I get home. | ||
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llIH
Norway2147 Posts
On February 08 2013 19:41 DarkLordOlli wrote: There is however the most wonky PvZ build in the world that opens with double stargate +1 void rays before warpgate into 9 gate chargelot/archon macro midgame. There's a guide on TL somewhere and zergs just melt to it like flies, can't believe how many games I've won with it against arguably better players. Insanely fun build if you wanna try it. I'll try to find it later today when I get home. That sounds like a much better build yes. I'm looking forward to your post. Thanks! | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
was actually really easy to find, lol. GLHF! | ||
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llIH
Norway2147 Posts
On February 08 2013 19:50 DarkLordOlli wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=296769 was actually really easy to find, lol. GLHF! Awesome. Thanks again! | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On February 08 2013 17:55 Teoita wrote: Ah so it's basically the 2gate robo immortal bust. It really doesn't have much to do with the Terran going CC first, it works vs 1rax fe too. Additionally, Naniwa (usually) doesn't probe scout, so i doubt he could have seen the CC first and reacted with that build. Also, you are NOT behind a Terran going CC first with 1gate FE. The difference in income and worker count between 1rax FE and CC first isn't all that big. I dunno, that depends on what kind of 1 Gate expand you go for. Standard 1 Gate expands put Toss economically slightly behind Terran. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13426 Posts
On February 09 2013 00:06 Gumbi wrote: I dunno, that depends on what kind of 1 Gate expand you go for. Standard 1 Gate expands put Toss economically slightly behind Terran. Any time the other person makes their nex/oc/hatch before you, you will *technically* be behind in economy. But the difference is so small if you go zealot/stalker/27nexus you will be more than fine against non gas openings. If you go for the MC 1 gate FE in its safest iteration (zealot/stalker/stalker/30nexus/30gas/30gate/30gate/30robo) then you will be a little behind 1 rax FE just because you cut probes for so so long. This won't make much of a difference below masters though. Also, teo's point is that 1 rax FE compared to CC first the econ difference is minimal so that a standard 1 gate FE will be fine against either. | ||
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JCKE
United States52 Posts
On February 08 2013 19:50 DarkLordOlli wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=296769 was actually really easy to find, lol. GLHF! I think this build is obsolete by now. Just a quick read from that thread's OP: "Once you reach 4 Colossus and if you retained your Archons + Void Rays, move out. This attack has SOOO much DPS, and should occur at about 18 minutes." If you attack the zerg at 18mins, you'll probably be facing a huge infestor/BL/corruptor army with lots of spine support. That said.. I open double stargate into macro mode in all of my PvZ games. I'm trying to find a good replay for you, but I'm noticing that a ton of zergs just try to cheese me. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On February 09 2013 03:31 JCKE wrote: I think this build is obsolete by now. Just a quick read from that thread's OP: "Once you reach 4 Colossus and if you retained your Archons + Void Rays, move out. This attack has SOOO much DPS, and should occur at about 18 minutes." If you attack the zerg at 18mins, you'll probably be facing a huge infestor/BL/corruptor army with lots of spine support. That said.. I open double stargate into macro mode in all of my PvZ games. I'm trying to find a good replay for you, but I'm noticing that a ton of zergs just try to cheese me. The build isn't obsolete. Zerg can't just go turtle infestor/BL if you play this build well. They need to commit heavily to a ground army at first to hold your initial pressure. Say roach/infestor/roach hydra. That takes a lot of supply and will give you an incredibly strong pre-BL timing. Zerg can't play standard vs this because you're going completely nuts. What you can do however, if you see that they're trying to go into BL, is to resume void ray production. You already got the upgrades started and with the recent IT nerf corruptors alone shouldn't cut it. Also fleet beacon is never far away + you already have templar tech. You're going into lategame with a unit composition as good as any. | ||
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JCKE
United States52 Posts
On February 09 2013 03:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: The build isn't obsolete. Zerg can't just go turtle infestor/BL if you play this build well. They need to commit heavily to a ground army at first to hold your initial pressure. Say roach/infestor/roach hydra. That takes a lot of supply and will give you an incredibly strong pre-BL timing. Zerg can't play standard vs this because you're going completely nuts. What you can do however, if you see that they're trying to go into BL, is to resume void ray production. You already got the upgrades started and with the recent IT nerf corruptors alone shouldn't cut it. Also fleet beacon is never far away + you already have templar tech. You're going into lategame with a unit composition as good as any. If you continue VR production early on, then I think it might work. But you're ignoring how much the protoss will need to commit in order to defend that roach/hydra attack. I can't find the guide's robo timing, but since it's rushing to get charge, upgrades, archons, and VRs, I can't imagine the protoss being able to get a colo out before the zerg hits a timing attack with roach/hydras. Even if the protoss is able to get a colo out by then, I'd be curious how he'd defend without much sentry support. I feel like the guide underestimates the roach/hydra timing attack. It might be because the guide is over a year old and zergs have gotten better at this attack. Also, the reason I say that the guide is no longer viable is because timings have changed. Zergs mass spines and rush to BL asap on the first opportunity they get. And while the build is very strong vs ling/infestor and maybe ling/infestor/corruptor, it's very weak vs roach/hydra. You need a better reaction than "If you decide to engage, your job is essentially to spread out, get as much surface area as possible and let him worry about managing the fight." | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On February 09 2013 01:23 ZeromuS wrote: Any time the other person makes their nex/oc/hatch before you, you will *technically* be behind in economy. But the difference is so small if you go zealot/stalker/27nexus you will be more than fine against non gas openings. If you go for the MC 1 gate FE in its safest iteration (zealot/stalker/stalker/30nexus/30gas/30gate/30gate/30robo) then you will be a little behind 1 rax FE just because you cut probes for so so long. This won't make much of a difference below masters though. Also, teo's point is that 1 rax FE compared to CC first the econ difference is minimal so that a standard 1 gate FE will be fine against either. I know, I'm just saying, MC's one is basically obsolete as it's too safe. The more you cut early game vs Terran, the harder their Medivac timings will hit you. I really like Naniwa's vs T style. He has many, varied, reasonably greedy vs Terran openings, with Gateway units and chronoes balanced out very nicely, and a cool scout-less style. I would never Gate Core Zealot Stalker 13 scout expand vs Terran. It's way too safe. It's possible to be a lot greedier and still be safe against everything. Maybe cut the Zealot (based on the SCV scout timing, or lack thereof), scout after Core/second Pylon. Terran's drop their cc at around 3 mins, and can get away without scouting early. It would hurt my brain to play 13 scout, zealot stalker expand at 4.45 vs that when I know I can get an earlier expansion (and still be as safe). In fact, I play A LOT greedier than this on NA server recently, and it's working out quite well. 3 Chronoes on Nexus, 13 Gate, rally 17th Probe for gas, use this Probe to make Nexus and Pylon at nat, and scout Terran nat with this Probe and adapt accordingly, This build is suuuper greedy. I love it Of course, I am speaking of Master's or higher, this would not be advice for lower leagues. | ||
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JCKE
United States52 Posts
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