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Italy12246 Posts
On January 10 2013 21:08 Chandra wrote:
Lately in PvT I've been going for a fast colossus into double forge build ala Creator/Genius. I get two colossi without range to defend the medivac timing and secure a third, then go directly into storm to defend viking timings. Assuming I defend everything decently my goal is to hit a strong 3/3 timing. My question is: is it worthwhile to produce any additional colossi and get range for them in preparation for this timing, or would it be better to focus my gas spending purely on archons and templar?
If you want to fake the Terran out, it's standard to get one Colossus, not two. If you want to go Colossus instead, get 3 and range. Doing 2 with no range is kind of a middle of the road thing that doesn't have that many pros, but a ton of cons (you are much weaker to vikings and your charge/storm are later, with less templar available).
Your first max should always aim to have at least 3 Colossi with range in PvT.
Sometimes i'll max on pure gateway/templar when i feel like the Terran screwed up (say, he loses a ton in his medivac timing and then fails a drop and loses 2 more medivacs or whatever) so i can just go and kill him or at least deny a 4th and trade decently, but all in all in high supply battles having a good Colossus count is always very useful.
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cant beat MMM. Although I have 3 2 3 upgrades and terran has 0 he jsut stims and screws me over. how can I counter this build? if there is a counter against this "balanced" race
User was warned for this post
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Italy12246 Posts
League? What happened in game? Don't balance whine and post a replay. There's a million guides on how to play PvT on this website, your question is way too generic.
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Macro my friend  It sounds like you're in Bronze/Silver (not hating, I can read between the lines easily enough, you're doing A LOT wrong if you have 33, Terran 00, and you're losing).
Learn a BO for each mu and perfect it. Probes & Pylons. Pylons & Probes 
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How the bloody fuck do i beat the 11 min roach push?? Im in silver league and this stephano fad has gotten way out of hand every fucking zerg cunt and his mother are doing the roach style of play and it's fucken impossible to beat. Stalkers do piss all damage to roaches even though they are supposed to be a counter to them because they get a bonus against armour but that's all bullshit. Im rippin' pissed right now because of this. If I get immortals they just focus them down and they drop within a second - no matter how many I have that's possible at this time frame. and while they're focusing the immortals stalkers shoot them but that still does nothing but tickle the greasy cunts. I'll post a replay of a game just then (the guy was an obvious smurf but still) I had +1 and this kid had the police (000). He was on 2 bases too. and then when they keep pulling roaches out their arse they just magically piss out mutas too off of 2 fucking bases what the fuck. Blizzard is to blame for this shit, they say stalkers get bonus to armoured, roaches are armoured so why the fuck do stalkers do nothing to roaches, they just get dropped even in 1 on 1 roach v stalker. If I see this style of play more and more im going to hunt the fuckers who do it down and bash the shit out them..FACT. for god sakes he didnt even get to 120 supply
but anyways here's the replay. Now my build was a little retarded at the start because you have to keep in mind he was a random player (that's why i did gateway first and put the pylon on main ramp instead of natural/forge)
http://drop.sc/293773
So yeah even if I FFE properly they still just do this gay shit and win no problems.
And also if any of you reading this work at blizzard fix the fucking stalkers - make them be good against what they're supposed to be good against (FUCKING ARMOURED UNITS). Now im going to release my anger onto my penis.
User was temp banned for this post.
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heheh i actually had to check to see if that was the same guy as the one complaining of mmm.
question:
pvp i robo expand, first robo units are obs immo. i manage to scout him 1 base pheonix with either a probe or the obs once it gets there.
whats my reaction?
edit: im only in plat so its possible my opponent isnt allining me and is just slow to drop his nexus. im wondering what my reaction should be in both situations.
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On January 11 2013 10:03 Tzela wrote:
heheh i actually had to check to see if that was the same guy as the one complaining of mmm.
question:
pvp i robo expand, first robo units are obs immo. i manage to scout him 1 base pheonix with either a probe or the obs once it gets there.
whats my reaction?
edit: im only in plat so its possible my opponent isnt allining me and is just slow to drop his nexus. im wondering what my reaction should be in both situations.
position your army behind your nexus and you want to ff their units away from yours when he/she attacks you with his gateway/phoenixes
You don't want any to enter b/c you want your stalkers to be able to focus fire the phoenixes
It's easier said than done though since they do have the slight tech advantage
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If he is expanding, you have to get blink and a fast forge...the bad thing is you will inevitable be behind in probes b/c they will pick off a couple and you are using your gas on stalkers which you dont want in the later stage of the game...the good thing is you are getting a faster forge than you would normally do (and it's safe due to their ground army being very small) which can open possible +3 timings
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Oh my lord, so many angry players today.
Question: In PvP, what's a good build for a 2-Gate Robo Expand? Does 2-Gate Robo Expand die to anything other than 4-gate, or can it hold all the 2-gas all-ins?
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On January 11 2013 11:41 Salivanth wrote:
Oh my lord, so many angry players today.
Question: In PvP, what's a good build for a 2-Gate Robo Expand? Does 2-Gate Robo Expand die to anything other than 4-gate, or can it hold all the 2-gas all-ins?
If you're doing the 2gates and robo before expand, you should have no problems with 4gates in the first place. Are you talking about 2 gates-->nexus-->robo?
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On January 11 2013 11:41 Salivanth wrote:
Oh my lord, so many angry players today.
Question: In PvP, what's a good build for a 2-Gate Robo Expand? Does 2-Gate Robo Expand die to anything other than 4-gate, or can it hold all the 2-gas all-ins?
Open up with a 3 stalker rush type build with fast second gas. Scout after core (or after gate on 4 player maps). If no gateway aggression or weird 1 gas play, then don't get Stalkers 2 and 3 and go for zealot sentry while dropping your robo.
Expand while your robo is building and chrono an obs and two immortals when it finishes.
There are other ways to do it but this one is the safest I think.
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Interesting. That'd be way faster than the way I was thinking. I'll have to try it. Thanks
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So I've been doing 3 stalker rush into robo and then expand, and recently my opponent 3 stalker rushed into a 4 gate, but because we both had three stalkers out on the map, it all came down to micro and I got hit first so I had to pull back and couldn't scout his build. Then the 4 gate came and I died. Shouldn't have tried to hold the expo obviously and retreated up my ramp once I saw the 5 stalkers.
But for future reference, if it is 3 stalker rush vs 3 stalker rush, is it just not safe to expand until after the 1st immortal is started? Thoughts? Or just plan on cancelling the nexus, retreating up the ramp and riding my tech advantage?
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On January 11 2013 11:37 .kv wrote:
position your army behind your nexus and you want to ff their units away from yours when he/she attacks you with his gateway/phoenixes
You don't want any to enter b/c you want your stalkers to be able to focus fire the phoenixes
It's easier said than done though since they do have the slight tech advantage
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If he is expanding, you have to get blink and a fast forge...the bad thing is you will inevitable be behind in probes b/c they will pick off a couple and you are using your gas on stalkers which you dont want in the later stage of the game...the good thing is you are getting a faster forge than you would normally do (and it's safe due to their ground army being very small) which can open possible +3 timings
ok thankyou great advice vs the allin at my level right now i have been walling the nat ramp with gates. maybe this isnt the best idea, a wall costs alot of minerals that could be stalkers.
i found im always loosing if i try to react to an expo by dropping a tc and going for blink. maybe its more of a skill problem than a build order one though.
thanks again for the reply! im slowly working away at my problem scenarios to eventually get diamond!
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On January 11 2013 09:05 FireMonkey wrote:How the bloody fuck do i beat the 11 min roach push?? Im in silver league and this stephano fad has gotten way out of hand every fucking zerg cunt and his mother are doing the roach style of play and it's fucken impossible to beat. Stalkers do piss all damage to roaches even though they are supposed to be a counter to them because they get a bonus against armour but that's all bullshit. Im rippin' pissed right now because of this. If I get immortals they just focus them down and they drop within a second - no matter how many I have that's possible at this time frame. and while they're focusing the immortals stalkers shoot them but that still does nothing but tickle the greasy cunts. I'll post a replay of a game just then (the guy was an obvious smurf but still) I had +1 and this kid had the police (000). He was on 2 bases too. and then when they keep pulling roaches out their arse they just magically piss out mutas too off of 2 fucking bases what the fuck. Blizzard is to blame for this shit, they say stalkers get bonus to armoured, roaches are armoured so why the fuck do stalkers do nothing to roaches, they just get dropped even in 1 on 1 roach v stalker. If I see this style of play more and more im going to hunt the fuckers who do it down and bash the shit out them..FACT. for god sakes he didnt even get to 120 supply but anyways here's the replay. Now my build was a little retarded at the start because you have to keep in mind he was a random player (that's why i did gateway first and put the pylon on main ramp instead of natural/forge) http://drop.sc/293773So yeah even if I FFE properly they still just do this gay shit and win no problems. And also if any of you reading this work at blizzard fix the fucking stalkers - make them be good against what they're supposed to be good against (FUCKING ARMOURED UNITS). Now im going to release my anger onto my penis. User was temp banned for this post.
bro just imagine how terran players feel right now against zerg
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On January 11 2013 12:17 alQahira wrote:
So I've been doing 3 stalker rush into robo and then expand, and recently my opponent 3 stalker rushed into a 4 gate, but because we both had three stalkers out on the map, it all came down to micro and I got hit first so I had to pull back and couldn't scout his build. Then the 4 gate came and I died. Shouldn't have tried to hold the expo obviously and retreated up my ramp once I saw the 5 stalkers.
But for future reference, if it is 3 stalker rush vs 3 stalker rush, is it just not safe to expand until after the 1st immortal is started? Thoughts? Or just plan on cancelling the nexus, retreating up the ramp and riding my tech advantage?
You can try to defend the expansion if the forward pylon is very far and it's a delayed 4 gate (I'm guessing it was since your probe scout didn't see anything suspicious). For that you need very crisp timing, and chrono out an immortal.
http://www.gomtv.net/2013gsls1/vod/71472 (Huk vs Finale GSL)
Generally, 3 stalkers just make sure proxy pylons aren't planted near your base. After that once you see his units pointing to a 4 gate or aggressive 3 gate you should cancel the nexus and defend your ramp (warp in sentry). As you do this immediately put down a robo bay and 2 more gates. You should be able to to kill him with a 4 gate 1 colossus timing after that.
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On January 11 2013 11:41 Salivanth wrote:
Oh my lord, so many angry players today.
Question: In PvP, what's a good build for a 2-Gate Robo Expand? Does 2-Gate Robo Expand die to anything other than 4-gate, or can it hold all the 2-gas all-ins?
2 gate robo expand is generally safe, hence its huge popularity, but there are some tricky situations:
-Worst case scenario is phoenix + 3/4 gate. He will have a ton of units and your sentries aren't too useful when phoenixes pick them off in 2 seconds. This situation may as well be called a build order loss but a hold is possible if the opponent doesn't micro properly.
-4 gate archon ramp bust can be very dicey if you don't scout it in time. Ideally you want to sacrifice the expo and wall your ramp with pylons. Without that wall it will be extremely difficult to hold, so it's imperative to scout well.
-If you are greedy, it's possible to die to a precise 3 gate blink timing (9 stalkers in your base at ~7:00).
As for the build, it varies depending on how greedy you want to be. Generally you open with a standard 3 stalker rush, followed by 2 sentries, nexus, and robo. It's possible to play MUCH greedier than this by going nexus after one stalker, but the potential consequences are obvious. Conversely, you can play safer by getting the robo first, but you'll end up behind if your opponent took an early expo.
The alternative safe build is 3 gate blink obs, which is generally better against 2 gas all-ins. The downside is that the best blink obs builds tend to be greedy, and thus are weaker against 3/4 gate.
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On January 11 2013 13:57 city42 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 11:41 Salivanth wrote:
Oh my lord, so many angry players today.
Question: In PvP, what's a good build for a 2-Gate Robo Expand? Does 2-Gate Robo Expand die to anything other than 4-gate, or can it hold all the 2-gas all-ins? 2 gate robo expand is generally safe, hence its huge popularity, but there are some tricky situations: -Worst case scenario is phoenix + 3/4 gate. He will have a ton of units and your sentries aren't too useful when phoenixes pick them off in 2 seconds. This situation may as well be called a build order loss but a hold is possible if the opponent doesn't micro properly. -4 gate archon ramp bust can be very dicey if you don't scout it in time. Ideally you want to sacrifice the expo and wall your ramp with pylons. Without that wall it will be extremely difficult to hold, so it's imperative to scout well. -If you are greedy, it's possible to die to a precise 3 gate blink timing (9 stalkers in your base at ~7:00). As for the build, it varies depending on how greedy you want to be. Generally you open with a standard 3 stalker rush, followed by 2 sentries, nexus, and robo. It's possible to play MUCH greedier than this by going nexus after one stalker, but the potential consequences are obvious. Conversely, you can play safer by getting the robo first, but you'll end up behind if your opponent took an early expo. The alternative safe build is 3 gate blink obs, which is generally better against 2 gas all-ins. The downside is that the best blink obs builds tend to be greedy, and thus are weaker against 3/4 gate.
I've been running some expand builds my current one is the DT expand, and the trick for holding off a lot of all-ins is just to play a little bit greedier. Taking my Expand when I DT expand when My Dark Shrine is halfway done makes holding collo all-in seem almost silly. If you open 3 stalker rush and place your stalkers in key locations to prevent the pylon going down then you can be greedy. If you can't then just cancel the nexus and defend your ramp.Also I wouldn't take expos before 6 minutes in pvp. This prevents you losing to 4gates. I think the trickiest all-in to hold is blink stalker all-ins because they hit before your second base econ can kick in. For these cases you can gas steal and delay his rush, or try to rule out blink stalker timings based on map preferences and such.
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How do I get scouting info in pvp after their stalker is out and before my obs pops? (I almost always go imo before obs) I want to poke with a zealot stalker but if they have a sentry i could lose either unit and i don't think it's worth it and info isn't guaranteed. I've tried sacking a probe but good players keep their zeal stalker at their natural. Is it even possible to scout in this timing?
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On January 12 2013 00:15 mizU wrote:
How do I get scouting info in pvp after their stalker is out and before my obs pops? (I almost always go imo before obs) I want to poke with a zealot stalker but if they have a sentry i could lose either unit and i don't think it's worth it and info isn't guaranteed. I've tried sacking a probe but good players keep their zeal stalker at their natural. Is it even possible to scout in this timing?
There's no way to scout during that time. You can go Obs first safely if you scout a second gas.
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On January 12 2013 00:15 mizU wrote:
How do I get scouting info in pvp after their stalker is out and before my obs pops? (I almost always go imo before obs) I want to poke with a zealot stalker but if they have a sentry i could lose either unit and i don't think it's worth it and info isn't guaranteed. I've tried sacking a probe but good players keep their zeal stalker at their natural. Is it even possible to scout in this timing?
No way to scout at that time, the only thing you can do is walk on the map with your stalker(s) and count units.
You can check his second gateway unit (sentry indicates probably phoenixes or immortal FE), his stalker count, and cross reference that information with what you got from your probe scout (gas timings, chronoboosts, number of gates, pylons) and make an educated guess.
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EPT
