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On January 07 2013 18:05 Gumbi wrote:
Pylon block his bases if you can. Pull a handful of Probes ~6 and attack the Hatch. The cannon + Probe DPS should be enough to prevent the Hatch from finishing. Don't let him finish it, that's very important.
Why not let him finish it, just kill the drones/lings that he makes with the larvae. I would say don't let him make a queen before I would say don't let him make the hatch.
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On January 08 2013 02:31 ThatSweatyNerd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 17:54 Salivanth wrote:
How should I react to a hatchery in my natural when I'm going FFE? I went for a Forge into 2 cannons, but he let the hatch finish and denied my natural for AGES....killing the hatch and waiting for the creep to recede basically forces me to play 1 base. the cannons should be able to kill his hatch, but if he let's in finish, just take your third or go for a 1 base all-in, since you know you will be 300 minerals up from him wasting mins at your natural.
Don't do this....
On January 08 2013 02:37 ThatSweatyNerd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 18:05 Gumbi wrote:
Pylon block his bases if you can. Pull a handful of Probes ~6 and attack the Hatch. The cannon + Probe DPS should be enough to prevent the Hatch from finishing. Don't let him finish it, that's very important. Why not let him finish it, just kill the drones/lings that he makes with the larvae. I would say don't let him make a queen before I would say don't let him make the hatch.
ideally you dont want it to finish...in fact you dont want him to plant it at all...you should be able to see if he sends an early drone to your base (2 player maps I'm referring to) and with that you just send an extra probe down to prevent it to happen
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Which are good PvT all-ins in maps that you can't go Blink/Obs (like Daybreak)?
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It's imperative that you prevent the Hatch from completing.
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Well, at least there's a nice consensus on the correct way to go about it :/ Maybe I'll PM Teoita.
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Italy12248 Posts
 you are welcome yo. For everyone else that's wondering, this is from the guide:
Hatchery at Natural
The best way to prevent a Hatchery block at your natural is to block it with two Probes if your scout your opponent sending a Drone across the map with your scouting Probe. But if a Hatchery does indeed get planted, you’ll have to resort to the following: Build two cannons instead of one and ensure that both can defend your entrance and attack the Hatchery. Continue your build as planned, but start a Zealot as soon as your Gateway finishes. If the Hatchery finishes, check for whether or not a Queen is in production and start a Pylon at the top of your ramp in case his intention is to use the Larva and run into your main. Queen production will be evident based on the Hatchery’s production animation. If he is making a Queen, it means he wants to lay Creep Tumors to further prevent your expansion.The best way to prevent this is to estimate when the Queen will pop out (Queen has 50 second build time) and surround it with Probes, so it has no space to lay a tumor. MC vs Leenock on Cloud Kingdom from GSL 2012 Season 1 shows a great example of this.
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So I just experienced a very interesting cheese where my opponent actually blocked my wall-off with a hatchery, and then sent lings in. How should I have dealt with this one?
http://drop.sc/292351
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On January 07 2013 17:54 Salivanth wrote:
How should I react to a hatchery in my natural when I'm going FFE? I went for a Forge into 2 cannons, but he let the hatch finish and denied my natural for AGES....killing the hatch and waiting for the creep to recede basically forces me to play 1 base.
Pylon block his bases (you can even contain him with canons if you want), plant 2 canons by the hatch and make sure he cant make lings/roaches and run them into your main by either walling your ramp or putting a canon in range. It's best just to not let the hatchery ever get up. But don't pull a ton of workers to kill it because it'll delay your mining too much.
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How do you tell if the queen is building does the hatch jiggle or something?
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On January 08 2013 10:29 Salivanth wrote:So I just experienced a very interesting cheese where my opponent actually blocked my wall-off with a hatchery, and then sent lings in. How should I have dealt with this one? http://drop.sc/292351
To begin with, your building positioning was off. You put your pylon where the forge should go, which let him plant the hatch in a rather nasty location. The pylon positioning also forced you to put cannons in an exposed location. The biggest mistake of all, though, was losing your scouting probe. Had you kept it alive and on the watchtower, you would have seen the lings and held the attack with a probe pull.
I think you have the right idea for defending it, it just comes down to proper simcity and execution. Here is a random Daybreak replay showing a better FFE building layout at that position (you can mirror it for the other position). Placing the second pylon properly is key, since it lets you wall off completely with a second gate if necessary.
edit: If he gets a queen out, make sure to target down any tumors.
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Italy12248 Posts
On January 08 2013 10:29 Salivanth wrote:So I just experienced a very interesting cheese where my opponent actually blocked my wall-off with a hatchery, and then sent lings in. How should I have dealt with this one? http://drop.sc/292351
I guess you can treat it like a hatch at the natural; your cannons should kill any lings that try to run in.
Yes, a hatch will move a bit when a queen is building.
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What's the easiest way to hold the 10 gate all-in where the Protoss builds 4 pylons in my base and warps Zealots, assuming that I scout it with my 13 scout?
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i go forge cannons and chrono stalker out of my first gate , other methode is chrono ur warpgate get 3 gates and use all ur probes and all u have to dont let him build pylons.
i prefer easy forge defense
edit:
when u go for forge better make 2 cannons or he may over run u ( they should defend each other and be a bit split so they defend whole base and further buildings.
build non stop stalker and chrono them or he make a stalker switch and attack around ur cannons ( till he dont have gas with that strat u should have enough stalker till he have switched)
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I like chronoing 2 Zealots out, then making Stalkers non stop. The biggest mistake you can do is delaying your Gates; this can happen in an intensive micro based situation. You'll end up with an influx of minerals and get overrun. As for the micro, try your hardest to prevent Pylons getting up by your min line. Minimise Probe losses with micro. DO NOT LOSE YOUR STALKERS. Eventually you will have too much and clean him up.
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Italy12248 Posts
The last time i played vs that was months ago; i held it off simply by chronoing out as many units as possible, cutting probes, simcitying my mineral line with the a 3rd and 4th gate and most importantly pulling probes to kill any close by pylons. I ended up being able to force his pylons all the way back to my natural (on shakuras), so by the time the zealots got to my buildings i had like 4-5 units and warpgate almost ready, and eventually overwhelmed him.
I've never tried the forge thing, but it sounds reasonable. It shouldn't set you too far behind since he's opening 10gate and only mined 50 gas for a long while.
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How many production bases [warpgate, robo,] for 2 base and 3 base?
1) 2 base bio
2) 2 base mech
3) 3 base bio
4) 3 base mech
the case is probably not that categorized as as it is with Terran. But lets say immortal/colossus heavy vs stalker,storm,sentry heavy.
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Italy12248 Posts
It depends on the build. Most PvT macro builds use 6gates/1 robo on 2bases and 10ish on 3 in the vast majority of situations however. 2 robos are used on 3-4 bases.
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Lately in PvT I've been going for a fast colossus into double forge build ala Creator/Genius. I get two colossi without range to defend the medivac timing and secure a third, then go directly into storm to defend viking timings. Assuming I defend everything decently my goal is to hit a strong 3/3 timing. My question is: is it worthwhile to produce any additional colossi and get range for them in preparation for this timing, or would it be better to focus my gas spending purely on archons and templar?
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On January 08 2013 10:29 Salivanth wrote:So I just experienced a very interesting cheese where my opponent actually blocked my wall-off with a hatchery, and then sent lings in. How should I have dealt with this one? http://drop.sc/292351
It is important to keep your scout around until right before Lings pop.
If you see a Hatch at the wall and a Spawning Pool early on you know Zerg is all-in. Just get two Cannons between Natural entrance and your Main ramp and kill the Hatch before it is done. If you accomplish that, Zerg would have to run in Lings against two Cannons. It is ok to take one Gas while doing that and to delay your Nexus.
Also for all PvZ Questions I would advise anyone to first look at this!
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On January 10 2013 21:08 Chandra wrote:
Lately in PvT I've been going for a fast colossus into double forge build ala Creator/Genius. I get two colossi without range to defend the medivac timing and secure a third, then go directly into storm to defend viking timings. Assuming I defend everything decently my goal is to hit a strong 3/3 timing. My question is: is it worthwhile to produce any additional colossi and get range for them in preparation for this timing, or would it be better to focus my gas spending purely on archons and templar?
it depends on how many Vikings they have. If they are just producing Vikings in fear of that mass ball of colossus, then it is better to produce archons/templar. Although if they are making a ton of medivacs instead, get more colossus, but don't forget to still get HT to feedback the medivacs.
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EPT
