EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 395
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Tzela
Canada48 Posts
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czaku
Poland429 Posts
On January 04 2013 12:31 Tzela wrote: whats the optimal order to get upgrades when playing robo mirror pvp? i usually go for 1 forge chronoing up to +3 attack before adding a second to get both shield upgrades at the same time. is this ideal? also whats the optimal number of probes to have lategame pvp? i cant seem to find a hard number anywhere. presonally i like to add 2nd forge while making +2 attack so i start +3 +1 at about same time, you can be 3 base by this time My question is. How to respond to double gas steal in pvp? Guy sends out a probe after 9 pylon and double steal gas delaying gateway. I was going for 11 gate 4 gate, having about 45s earlier gate. But i kinda felt, that getting 2nd gate fast, 2 zealots to destroy one assimilator would not get me fast enough 4 gate to bust him sieged with cannon or two. Any tips? | ||
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bertu
Brazil871 Posts
On January 04 2013 12:31 Tzela wrote: whats the optimal order to get upgrades when playing robo mirror pvp? i usually go for 1 forge chronoing up to +3 attack before adding a second to get both shield upgrades at the same time. is this ideal? also whats the optimal number of probes to have lategame pvp? i cant seem to find a hard number anywhere. The super streamlined version doesn't get a second forge and go to +3 attack with constant chronos, trying, if possible, to attack before opponent has his +3. That's the Creator/Rain game plan. The number of probes is around 60; I've seen anything between 56 and 66 in pro games, depending on how fast they expanded early in the game. It's unusual to see more than 66. On January 05 2013 06:29 astor wrote: My question is. How to respond to double gas steal in pvp? Guy sends out a probe after 9 pylon and double steal gas delaying gateway. I was going for 11 gate 4 gate, having about 45s earlier gate. But i kinda felt, that getting 2nd gate fast, 2 zealots to destroy one assimilator would not get me fast enough 4 gate to bust him sieged with cannon or two. Any tips? This thread contains some tips in how to stop this, including replays. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349099 Besides preventing the steal, what I personally do is chrono zealots while using my 18th probe or later to kill the first assimilator (after that, the zealots kill the second one and the probes go back to mining). The important part is to keep calm and scout what he is doing afterwards. Check the thread above for the usual follow-ups from this build. | ||
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Tzela
Canada48 Posts
On January 05 2013 08:57 bertu wrote: The super streamlined version doesn't get a second forge and go to +3 attack with constant chronos, trying, if possible, to attack before opponent has his +3. That's the Creator/Rain game plan. The number of probes is around 60; I've seen anything between 56 and 66 in pro games, depending on how fast they expanded early in the game. It's unusual to see more than 66. thankyou for the reply. i asked because i found my +3 is hitting when a double forge player is hitting 2/2. if my attack gets botched somhow or im a bit to slow getting to his base (say from harrassment), he hits 3/3 and i get completely steamrolled durring the engagement. single forge just seems so all or nothing. | ||
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S7EFEN
86 Posts
Just promoted to diamond... Been trying to figure out a consistent strategy for PvZ, been leaning towards stargate play in PvP because, IMO, stalkers and cannons do a poor job defending and I enjoy forcing the enemy protoss to go blink/stalkers. Queens + spores seen to shut down phoenix play in PvZ very easy and cost inefficiently, and many zergs seem to blind spore. I also am not a fan of immo sentry, as most zergs in plat/diamond seem to auto build to count it now since it is so common. I think I found a playstyle I like. I poke in at what should be 7:45, 8 (I warped in at 8:30 i believe, too late) with a few zealots +1 and a stalker after seeing a fast third, to either snipe queens, force lings, or see that my opponent is going roach. I saw roaches, so I simply went home. Got 7 gates, +2, stalkers and zealots and pushed. My question is my initial engagement. I saw roach ling outside my base, so I delayed pushing out, and I was floating 1.2k ish minerals so I warped in a round of zealots, but as I approached the third, ran into roaches. My army was very bunched, I realized my whole army was on 1 hotkey, so I tried to put sentry/zealots on one, stalkers on 2 but failed to make use of it during the engagement. How should I have handled that engagement? It seemed as though my zealots evaporated, and my forcefields sucked. Should I have made a solid ff wall halfway through his army? How do I quickly spread my zealots/stalkers so they don't clump so much? And should I have even build the zealots as I only saw a few lings. Also, do I take gas 3 and 4 too late? thanks | ||
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
Basically I am looking for a recent good metagame build that is safe vs Terran, and brings me to a good and safe lategame. Preferably involving storm and gateway units, able to hold all terran aggression etc. I've tried Day9 dailies but theyre either outdated or dont discuss the build in depth. | ||
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Geiko
France1939 Posts
On January 05 2013 19:01 Daimai wrote: I have been taking a break from SC2 for a while but am now looking to get back into the game. However I always have had a lot of trouble in PvT even though people say protoss is OP in that matchup. Basically I am looking for a recent good metagame build that is safe vs Terran, and brings me to a good and safe lategame. Preferably involving storm and gateway units, able to hold all terran aggression etc. I've tried Day9 dailies but theyre either outdated or dont discuss the build in depth. I would recommend you check out kcdc's build. His opener is a great gateway expand build order that is safe against 2 rax aggression and it leads into a templar based mid-game with storm defense against 10-11 minute timings. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319339 Haven't gone through it for a while now but I think most of the guide is still relevant in today's metagame. | ||
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llIH
Norway2143 Posts
How do most pro players do it? 1/2 of main probes? And then rally each nexus to each mineral line? | ||
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DashedHopes
Canada414 Posts
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DashedHopes
Canada414 Posts
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On January 05 2013 14:02 S7EFEN wrote: http://drop.sc/291137 Just promoted to diamond... Been trying to figure out a consistent strategy for PvZ, been leaning towards stargate play in PvP because, IMO, stalkers and cannons do a poor job defending and I enjoy forcing the enemy protoss to go blink/stalkers. Queens + spores seen to shut down phoenix play in PvZ very easy and cost inefficiently, and many zergs seem to blind spore. I also am not a fan of immo sentry, as most zergs in plat/diamond seem to auto build to count it now since it is so common. I think I found a playstyle I like. I poke in at what should be 7:45, 8 (I warped in at 8:30 i believe, too late) with a few zealots +1 and a stalker after seeing a fast third, to either snipe queens, force lings, or see that my opponent is going roach. I saw roaches, so I simply went home. Got 7 gates, +2, stalkers and zealots and pushed. My question is my initial engagement. I saw roach ling outside my base, so I delayed pushing out, and I was floating 1.2k ish minerals so I warped in a round of zealots, but as I approached the third, ran into roaches. My army was very bunched, I realized my whole army was on 1 hotkey, so I tried to put sentry/zealots on one, stalkers on 2 but failed to make use of it during the engagement. How should I have handled that engagement? It seemed as though my zealots evaporated, and my forcefields sucked. Should I have made a solid ff wall halfway through his army? How do I quickly spread my zealots/stalkers so they don't clump so much? And should I have even build the zealots as I only saw a few lings. Also, do I take gas 3 and 4 too late? thanks For starters, you should refine your opening a bit. You cut a probe to build your 2nd pylon at 15, which can be done at 16 without a cut. Then, your wall-off was suspect--you don't really want a cannon to be in range of melee units, and it distinctly had a bunch of surface area. Overall, you seem to understand the concept of a FFE, but maybe take some time to improve it? Then, your follow up was going up to 4 gates, getting +1, and a TC for zealot pressure and +2. I think this is fine, but if you're going to execute this pressure, you should be boosting your WG tech and forge so it happens sooner. The first warp-in was at the 9 minute mark, which is too late to be sending 4 lone zealots out for pressure. There's a pretty good way to think about tech paths in the midgame: You need to know what the zerg is doing with either an air unit, a hallucinated air unit, or with pressure. What you did was warp in, then walk home. You have no clue whether he's getting lings, roaches, mutas, infestors, hydras, or banelings. If you're going to pressure, you need to at least trade a couple zealots for the information of his composition, tech path, and upgrade timings. Don't play blind. If you don't think pressuring is worthwhile because you'll lose too much, then you should be either getting a stargate, a robo, or hallucination to scout the zerg. If you aren't going to hit a 3 base zerg while you're on 2 base, you need a third. 12 minutes is too late to move out with a +2 blink stalker army on 2 base. You have to hit sooner and harder, or you need to take a third long before this time--especially on Entombed, where a third is basically free to take in PvZ. In the engagement, you need to forcefield earlier to split that army up as it's coming towards you--don't try to split it after it's already right on top of your army. When you move onto creep, you have to babysit your army--especially in a 2-base all-in where micro is basically the all-important factor and the full extent of your macro is warp-ins in the fight. I think you'll get a feel for how things play out; you seem to have some good fundamentals thus far. Playing tougher opponents will force you to refine your builds through the midgame. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On January 05 2013 06:29 astor wrote: I obviously don't face this too often, but I'd say expand is your best bet. You should actually try to go nexus as fast as humanly possible because his attack will be so late. The proper response from the gas stealing player is then to pylon block your nat. Even tho it slows down your eco quite a bit, you will still have better eco than him. And his army will be very weak for starters, so just overpower any 1 base all-ins with quite zealot heavy defense.My question is. How to respond to double gas steal in pvp? Guy sends out a probe after 9 pylon and double steal gas delaying gateway. I was going for 11 gate 4 gate, having about 45s earlier gate. But i kinda felt, that getting 2nd gate fast, 2 zealots to destroy one assimilator would not get me fast enough 4 gate to bust him sieged with cannon or two. Any tips? | ||
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ProfessionalNoob
United States75 Posts
Is it worth it to spam feedback all his medivacs? Or should I only keep 3-5 templar to storm and turn the rest into archons? | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On January 07 2013 03:18 Teoita wrote: I keep 4 ish in my main army, one in my main, one in my third, one for each outlying expansion, and like another 3-4 or so around the map gathering energy. That's one way to it. Late game PvT (more than 3 bases established each), I wouldn't have any at my bases on most maps. I prefer the passive map control offered by 4 or 5 obs, which allows me to minimise supply spent on defending vs drops. Like you, I spread some around the map (on high ground quite often), and do things like lure the Terran army in somewhere and flank with some Temps. For maps like Daybreak vs a drop heavy T, I agree, one would need Temps defending bases vs drops ad many spotting Pylons. | ||
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MuffinFTW
United States235 Posts
TvP - ? ZvP -? (besides roach rush) PvP - besides 4 gate/proxy 2 gate/dt | ||
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
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StraTkSloth
United States181 Posts
On January 07 2013 17:54 Salivanth wrote: How should I react to a hatchery in my natural when I'm going FFE? I went for a Forge into 2 cannons, but he let the hatch finish and denied my natural for AGES....killing the hatch and waiting for the creep to recede basically forces me to play 1 base. the cannons should be able to kill his hatch, but if he let's in finish, just take your third or go for a 1 base all-in, since you know you will be 300 minerals up from him wasting mins at your natural. | ||
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StraTkSloth
United States181 Posts
On January 07 2013 16:20 MuffinFTW wrote: Hey guys. I'm a random player and curious what type of cheeses can I do to Protoss? TvP - ? ZvP -? (besides roach rush) PvP - besides 4 gate/proxy 2 gate/dt TvP - proxy rax (extremely frustrating) and a 1-1-1 build is pretty cheesy ZvP - proxy hatch or 6 pool. On a close position map, 6 pools can be extremely effective PvP - proxy 2 gate is most effective, but cannon rushes are deadly once you get decent at them. I suggest you actually get better at the game instead of cheesing though, but there was a point where I cheesed all the time to get to plat  | ||
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