I scouted no expansion, my reaction was kind of late, but i still got early robo and 2 extra gates, although i'm not sure if i should have still expanded ?
anyway, wasn't sure if it was a 1 1 1 or banshee or whatever. Obs scouted 2 port banshee, i went stalker heavy, eventually got blink, archons, cannons. I was pinned in my base by the banshee count, and it was hard to establish a 3rd..to many places to defend at once. It's a very long replay (36mins) so youcan skip through most of it.
i decided to do some kind of attack knowing up until that point i could probably kill all his banshees. Turns i couldn't kill his 2nd base, and i lost most of my army in the end. while i was regrouping he killed the probes in my main. (need to look at minimap more i guess and get in position)
I tried a 2nd attack that killed his middle base, 3rd, and natural, dont remember what happened after that.
After checking the replay i found out that he had many more bases than me because i was pinned back on 2 bases. Once they ran out i had no income so i just tapped out. Not sure what i should have done to gain an advantage? Need some help here, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
EDIT: for reference, when do the first rax addons get built?
Mid-high Platinum Protoss here with an MMR of around 1240. In a game without any opponent I can macro pretty well and max out around 15 min, with upgrades, and following a pretty normal build order (Taking around a 9 min third. Obviously not perfect macro, but good enough as a baseline). However, my macro falls apart when in contact with the real world. Any specific maps or practice methods you guys recommend to improve multitasking/APM? I'm hovering right around 50-55 at the moment, and SC2gears says that 40-45 of that is EAPM.
I wouldn't recommend concentrating on APM at Platinum level. You can get by with low APM as Protoss until high Diamond I would suspect. In addition, you must remember that basically everyone spams.
Pick a BO for each MU and perfect it. That means practice it vs no-one first. Don't miss Pylons or Probes. Hit your timings correctly. Then test it out vs a real opponent (which will include scouting, possible on the fly modifications etc). It's really that simple. Perfect your BO and you can get to Master's pretty easily. I am near high Master and have one BO for PvP and PvT. The nature of PvZ forces me to have a shit tonne of BOs (which is a good thing, I suppose). I literally do the same thing every PvP/T. It's all about preciseness.
Right, my point is I've already got the build orders down vs no-one pretty well, but I'm having trouble executing them versus not-no-one. So how do I improve other than just playing tons of games, which seems inefficient. Plus since I'm thinking about so many things I'm not really carefully focusing on improving certain things. What I would really love would be a way I could practice playing a game starting at the 12 min mark with a big battle coming up where I can just try macroing while fighting over and over.
If you're trying to improve your macro, it basically does just come down to practice and playing games. However, if you play game after game without having the proper intention, you won't learn. If your problem is macroing in general, macroing while fighting, whatever it is, just go into a game with the thought of "I'm going to really pay attention to my macro and focus on it." You just have to keep the thought of macro in the back of your mind. Check some things quickly. Am I building probes? Did I build units? Have I expanded? Have I teched? Have I built more buildings? Have I gotten upgrades? If you focus on each of these things, 1 at a time, you will improve. I don't recommend focusing on 5 things at once. It's like the axiom, "If you chase 2 rabbits, you will lose them both." Focus on the 1 rabbit that is giving you the most trouble and when that improves (doesn't mean perfection), move to something else.
I scouted no expansion, my reaction was kind of late, but i still got early robo and 2 extra gates, although i'm not sure if i should have still expanded ?
anyway, wasn't sure if it was a 1 1 1 or banshee or whatever. Obs scouted 2 port banshee, i went stalker heavy, eventually got blink, archons, cannons. I was pinned in my base by the banshee count, and it was hard to establish a 3rd..to many places to defend at once. It's a very long replay (36mins) so youcan skip through most of it.
i decided to do some kind of attack knowing up until that point i could probably kill all his banshees. Turns i couldn't kill his 2nd base, and i lost most of my army in the end. while i was regrouping he killed the probes in my main. (need to look at minimap more i guess and get in position)
I tried a 2nd attack that killed his middle base, 3rd, and natural, dont remember what happened after that.
After checking the replay i found out that he had many more bases than me because i was pinned back on 2 bases. Once they ran out i had no income so i just tapped out. Not sure what i should have done to gain an advantage? Need some help here, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
EDIT: for reference, when do the first rax addons get built?
As written in the OP, the way to react to 2 port banshee is with phoenixes. Stalkers are terrible against banshees, especially without blink. You need enough stalkers to fend off the initial banshees while the stargate finishes, and then no more.
Regarding your build, expanding was the right choice, but going 3 gates before nexus isn't good if you don't use the gates for anything. In this particular game, you would have killed him if you put on 3 gate pressure. Without any information, the standard nexus --> gate gate --> robo build works fine. Also, you need to make more probes. I don't believe you reached 50 at any point in the game, which is alarming because it's normal to have 70+ on 3 bases.
On January 08 2013 10:29 Salivanth wrote: So I just experienced a very interesting cheese where my opponent actually blocked my wall-off with a hatchery, and then sent lings in. How should I have dealt with this one?
To begin with, your building positioning was off. You put your pylon where the forge should go, which let him plant the hatch in a rather nasty location. The pylon positioning also forced you to put cannons in an exposed location. The biggest mistake of all, though, was losing your scouting probe. Had you kept it alive and on the watchtower, you would have seen the lings and held the attack with a probe pull.
I think you have the right idea for defending it, it just comes down to proper simcity and execution. Here is a random Daybreak replay showing a better FFE building layout at that position (you can mirror it for the other position). Placing the second pylon properly is key, since it lets you wall off completely with a second gate if necessary.
edit: If he gets a queen out, make sure to target down any tumors.
His pylon positioning was fine, it's how I always make my walls, especially for wide areas like Daybreak. The problem was not his wall, it was that he didn't stick with the drone with his probe. And all he had to do was just continue his wall and it would have been fine. Sitting at the watch tower too would have helped a lot, it gives a better idea of when to completely wall off if your cannon won't finish in time. Halt probe production if you need the minerals too.
And I didn't like your wall city42, it protruded too much. Your core was way too exposed. Here is an example of how I build my wall. http://drop.sc/294401 Don't watch the rest of the game though, I made too many mistakes. :D
On January 08 2013 10:29 Salivanth wrote: So I just experienced a very interesting cheese where my opponent actually blocked my wall-off with a hatchery, and then sent lings in. How should I have dealt with this one?
To begin with, your building positioning was off. You put your pylon where the forge should go, which let him plant the hatch in a rather nasty location. The pylon positioning also forced you to put cannons in an exposed location. The biggest mistake of all, though, was losing your scouting probe. Had you kept it alive and on the watchtower, you would have seen the lings and held the attack with a probe pull.
I think you have the right idea for defending it, it just comes down to proper simcity and execution. Here is a random Daybreak replay showing a better FFE building layout at that position (you can mirror it for the other position). Placing the second pylon properly is key, since it lets you wall off completely with a second gate if necessary.
edit: If he gets a queen out, make sure to target down any tumors.
His pylon positioning was fine, it's how I always make my walls, especially for wide areas like Daybreak. The problem was not his wall, it was that he didn't stick with the drone with his probe. And all he had to do was just continue his wall and it would have been fine. Sitting at the watch tower too would have helped a lot, it gives a better idea of when to completely wall off if your cannon won't finish in time. Halt probe production if you need the minerals too.
And I didn't like your wall city42, it protruded too much. Your core was way too exposed. Here is an example of how I build my wall. http://drop.sc/294401 Don't watch the rest of the game though, I made too many mistakes. :D
It really wasn't fine. You don't want multiple pylons in the wall for obvious reasons. The only pro I've ever seen put a pylon there is Parting when he goes blind 17 nexus, but he's a super greedy player who accepts build order losses anyway.
Your wall needs extra buildings for a complete wall-off, and the core positioning just takes away space from emergency cannons. Worst of all, the cannon is hugely exposed. I took my wall from CreatorPrime who has since improved it slightly (see his games at BWC), but his core is still in a similar position.
When opening Phoenixes vs. Phoenixes, how do you check whether your opponent has decided to keep making Phoenixes? Do you use Observers? Because I don't want to poke in with my Phoenixes and lose one of them accidentally.
Also, if he doesn't continue to make Phoenixes, what would be my best way to take advantage of that? Just go to his base, kill his Phoenixes and lift all his probes? I just lost to a player going DTs into Archons after I incorrectly thought that he would continue to make Phoenixes, but I'm sure there'd be something with which I could punish that.
I scouted no expansion, my reaction was kind of late, but i still got early robo and 2 extra gates, although i'm not sure if i should have still expanded ?
anyway, wasn't sure if it was a 1 1 1 or banshee or whatever. Obs scouted 2 port banshee, i went stalker heavy, eventually got blink, archons, cannons. I was pinned in my base by the banshee count, and it was hard to establish a 3rd..to many places to defend at once. It's a very long replay (36mins) so youcan skip through most of it.
i decided to do some kind of attack knowing up until that point i could probably kill all his banshees. Turns i couldn't kill his 2nd base, and i lost most of my army in the end. while i was regrouping he killed the probes in my main. (need to look at minimap more i guess and get in position)
I tried a 2nd attack that killed his middle base, 3rd, and natural, dont remember what happened after that.
After checking the replay i found out that he had many more bases than me because i was pinned back on 2 bases. Once they ran out i had no income so i just tapped out. Not sure what i should have done to gain an advantage? Need some help here, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
EDIT: for reference, when do the first rax addons get built?
As written in the OP, the way to react to 2 port banshee is with phoenixes. Stalkers are terrible against banshees, especially without blink. You need enough stalkers to fend off the initial banshees while the stargate finishes, and then no more.
Regarding your build, expanding was the right choice, but going 3 gates before nexus isn't good if you don't use the gates for anything. In this particular game, you would have killed him if you put on 3 gate pressure. Without any information, the standard nexus --> gate gate --> robo build works fine. Also, you need to make more probes. I don't believe you reached 50 at any point in the game, which is alarming because it's normal to have 70+ on 3 bases.
Thanks, I completely forgot about phoenix's..lol...
Also, I didn't want to oversaturate my bases too much since he kept denying my third, and he killed around26 probes, but I guess i should have gone up to 70 anyway?
On January 13 2013 19:13 Nyrr wrote: When opening Phoenixes vs. Phoenixes, how do you check whether your opponent has decided to keep making Phoenixes? Do you use Observers? Because I don't want to poke in with my Phoenixes and lose one of them accidentally.
Also, if he doesn't continue to make Phoenixes, what would be my best way to take advantage of that? Just go to his base, kill his Phoenixes and lift all his probes? I just lost to a player going DTs into Archons after I incorrectly thought that he would continue to make Phoenixes, but I'm sure there'd be something with which I could punish that.
What I usually do in the beginning is at the very least check if he's expanding behind his phoenixes. If you can confirm that he's at least not expanding, then you can just stay on one base and get a robo for observers. I pretty much always make the Robo relatively shortly after the 2nd Phoenix in order to stay safe against DTs.
Whenever it's Phoenix, it's always one of three follow-ups:
1. Continue making Phoenixes 2. Expanding behind it 3. Tech switch
I'll go over each one kinda briefly:
1. If you know he's not expanding, just keep your Phoenixes in your base and keep producing it until you can get an observer in his base and confirm what his follow-up is. If he is constantly making Phoenixes, then you follow-up with expanding if you haven't already. The only thing you need to watch out for is an all-in with a bunch of Phoenixes and Zealots. If he does try to all-in, just make sure you get your initial set of Force Fields off before he picks them off. If he tries to pick up your units, then you'll win the air fight and just use the Phoenixes to clean up the Zealots after (also you can reinforce Phoenixes faster than he can).
2. If he's expanding, then you can either expand yourself or follow-up with an all-in. At this point you can either choose to tech switch to Blink and follow-up with a big Gateway aggression later. If he's stopping Phoenix production completely, then you can make more yourself and go clear his Phoenixes out since any tech he chooses to make won't kick in by then.
3. Almost every tech switch he might do revolves around getting an early Robo, so depending on what he switches too will be based on Robo: a) Robo - If he's going Robo you can make Immortals yourself or eventually tech to Colossi (if he isn't still making Phoenixes) b) Twilight - Immortals do great against any Blink follow-up. c) DT Shrine - Observers d) Archon Bust - good simcity just like how you would play against any kind of Chargelot/Archon bust
On January 14 2013 17:05 Grimmyman123 wrote: I still cannot beat the 3 base mass roach that zergs doing. I have nothing for it.
What's the go to build for Roach killing?
I'm a personal fan of Creator's build. It gets a relatively fast 3rd and with good positioning of Sentries for FF and Observers for spotting you'll be safe. Here's a Day9 video of it in action: http://day9.tv/d/Day9/no-colossus-pvz-play-creatorprime/ I do warn that this is an older video so don't follow what they tell you about Brood Lords since the new meta is 15 minute Brood Lords.
Otherwise, if you want a general sense of defending 3 Base Roach, here's one from Mr. Llama (his Winning with Ease videos are great!)
Otherwise, it depends on how you want to open. If you like doing Twilight for upgrades, go with Creator's build. If you want Robo, follow Mr.Llama's video. If you want to open Stargate, however, here's another video to show you the variety of ways to hold it and spotting it coming:
What are the timings for double forge into colossus tech in PvT? Also, what kind of supply count should I be trying to get in the first 10 minutes or so, before the stim-medivac timing hits?
What exactly am I supposed to be doing to win, when I hit the right side of the coin in PvP? I always seem to pick the right build but still manage to lose TT
I went 3 gate blink all in and the other guy went 1 gate stargate and I still lost. Should I make DTs? Do I just expand and play defensively?
On January 14 2013 21:41 mizU wrote: What exactly am I supposed to be doing to win, when I hit the right side of the coin in PvP? I always seem to pick the right build but still manage to lose TT
I went 3 gate blink all in and the other guy went 1 gate stargate and I still lost. Should I make DTs? Do I just expand and play defensively?
If you get quite ahead, play defensively and hit a timing. These days, at least on the professional level, PvP is very tight and even just getting slightly behind can cause you to lose the game. For a great example of a game where the advantageous player turns his lead into a win, look for Rain vs Hero from Proleague.
On January 14 2013 21:41 mizU wrote: What exactly am I supposed to be doing to win, when I hit the right side of the coin in PvP? I always seem to pick the right build but still manage to lose TT
I went 3 gate blink all in and the other guy went 1 gate stargate and I still lost. Should I make DTs? Do I just expand and play defensively?
If you get quite ahead, play defensively and hit a timing. These days, at least on the professional level, PvP is very tight and even just getting slightly behind can cause you to lose the game. For a great example of a game where the advantageous player turns his lead into a win, look for Rain vs Hero from Proleague.
On January 14 2013 21:35 Teoita wrote: Seriously people read the fucking stickies. It's getting ridicolous.
I should clarify: My question was referring to double forge into fast colossi: Fast enough to have 1 out to defend the stim-medivac timing with. The style linked in the original post gets a Robo Bay at 11:25, and I'm pretty sure I've heard of players getting the robo bay a lot faster. Or is the style Robo Bay into fast double forge? I can't remember now...
EPT
