EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 340
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
1-3: Army/secondary army/casters/drops, etc. Units in general. 4: Production buildings. I like having all the Warpgates on here so I can check individual cooldows quickly with a glance. 5: Nexi 7: Mothership. Even if I hotkey it to 1 or 2 with my army, I always put it on 7 just because that's out of the way and I don't need to hit that button often, but it's basically my Town Portal button and it's not too distant from R for Recall, so it's worth the finger jump. 0: Forge(s), Core(s), Twilight, Colossus Den, Fleet Beacon, sometimes Temp Archives. If I have completed all the upgrades from a building, I take it off the hotkey. This is useful to start upgrades without looking at the buildings directly, to check the status on upgrades, and to be able to find a building if I can't remember where I built it (or to recognize that I lost a Forge or something, in case I did). Plus, checking on the upgrades means once you check your Forges, you won't have 2 upgrades queued on 1 Forge unless it's intentional...just like going 3434343434 or something similar to check Barracks/Starport if you're playing Terran. EDIT: Also, I used to try the ` key (next to 1) as a hotkey group or as a replacement for backspace, but I really don't like how close it is to the escape key on my keyboard. On some keyboards, escape is a centimeter or more away from the tilda key. On mine, it's about 2 millimeters--not much of a gap. So I was accidentally cancelling Colossi, upgrades, and Nexi when I wanted to select a control group or cycle between expansions...not a good situation at all. It cost me some ladder games. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
A Factory can be used to mess with the AI,; it can be detrimental to the Toss player if "used" as such in an engagement, forcing the Toss to constantly focus fire. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On October 01 2012 20:58 Gumbi wrote: Reaching hotkeys after 6 is awkward for me (with practise I guess I could manage 6, but it's definitely awkward after that). I use tabbing for abilities. I find it much faster. The only trick is to learn the priorities of the abilities; for example, if I want to FF with a sentry templar army, I need to press 1 tab f click-to-place. Vs Muta I split my army into 2 groups, the rest I manually control. I would suggest rebinding just about every hotkey in the game, including the control groups. I think the lack of this functionality in previous blizzard rts games puts people off. But the truth is that the default hotkeys are designed for people who play single player, UMS etc. With a good setup you can have everything bound to the left of your keyboard or your mouse. You can also have one control group with all your units in, plus additional groups for specific units. Units can be in more than one control group (which is a bad thing for what I am used to, but you are stuck with it so might as well take advantage). Unfortunately, we both know that there is a downside to this: you will lose constantly until you get used to a new setup. | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
The common one I hate is popping a guardian shield instead of hold posing a sentry  Sometimes I think people overestimate the importance if hotkeys and their efficiency. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
I'm looking for a simple guide to do a 2 base immortal sentry all in, and I'm looking for the guide that opens the same way but cuts a couple of gates to get a fairly early third. So far, with my only knowledge being that 17 nexus is the greediest you can be, I've been opening: 17 nexus 17 forge 17 pylon 18 gate 19/20 2 gas core +1 atk robo gas 3/4 chrono out 3 immortals +1 armor add 6 gates push around 11 minutes I stop producing probes when I'm at optimal saturation (44) If anyone could expand or fix my build order I would appreciate it, and please shed some light on how to take this basic idea and take a third with it. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
Possible variation with 4gate zealot pressure before the timing: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333477, last build Taking a third: fast robo build in here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327905 | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On October 02 2012 03:42 Teoita wrote: Immortal timing: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325014 Possible variation with 4gate zealot pressure before the timing: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333477, last build Taking a third: fast robo build in here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327905 Thank you! I need to learn how to search these forums better, I tend to get the wording or phrasing wrong... TT To the OP: I think these are all worthy of being in the OP when you get around to it. It's a lot of work and I appreciate it! edit: Looking these over, most builds seem to prefer gateway before 2nd pylon. Is this more optimal? What changes if I pylonblock his natural/third, or do these builds not allow for it? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
 Regarding searching, if you want to look for a guide search [g] and the matchup, maybe with a key word or two. | ||
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-MoOsE-
United States236 Posts
17 nexus 17forge 18pylon (you get extra income from squeezing in this worker) 18gate 19cannon (if you are efficiently mining you should still have 150 minerals right as the forge finishes for the cannon) 20gas and continue from there If he sends a bunch of lings your way, complete the wall off with a gate and you will be fine. | ||
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-MoOsE-
United States236 Posts
Is this a good build order and if so when should I grab the natural gases? | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On October 02 2012 04:27 -MoOsE- wrote: In pvt what is safest way to open collosus. It seems to me that opening 1 gate fe into 3 gate robo and then into collosus is the best. After the collusus starts you throw down 2 forges, more gates and twilight. Is this a good build order and if so when should I grab the natural gases? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292549 | ||
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Chandra
United States123 Posts
On October 02 2012 04:34 Whatson wrote: It seems to me like he's referring to a colossus first into double forge style, which is not what the CreatorPrime style is (double forge into twilight into colossus later). I'd also be interested in figuring out how to properly open colossus first into double forge. I believe Creator and other Koreans have been doing that more lately.http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292549 | ||
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SidewinderSC2
United States236 Posts
On October 02 2012 04:27 -MoOsE- wrote: In pvt what is safest way to open collosus. It seems to me that opening 1 gate fe into 3 gate robo and then into collosus is the best. After the collusus starts you throw down 2 forges, more gates and twilight. Is this a good build order and if so when should I grab the natural gases? Committing to a lot of Colossus and trying double forge on 2 bases is fairly hard. You have basically no extra gas if you commit heavily to Colossus and want upgrades from 2 forges at the same time (read: can't really afford Stalkers so drops are a big problem, and you have very little to no answer to Vikings and really good surface area from Terran's army). A lot of Koreans have been managing this pretty well (Squirtle is a good example from his recent PvT sets) by opening 3gate Robo after expand as you were saying, making the Robo Bay and 1 Colossus without range (rarely 2.. not sure what the condition is - might be the Marine to Marauder ratio). The only goal is to survive the typical +1 timing, bait Vikings and take a safe 3rd base while you switch into Charge and Archons. So, a smooth transition would likely be Colossus, then 3 more gates in time to hold the +1 timing. As for the extra 2 gasses at the natural, you'll need to run a few games to understand when you want the Colossus to be finished (~10 minutes is a good target), then subtract build times and gas limitations on the Robo Bay, Colossus itself, etc, without cutting too many units. I'd guess double gas after your 2nd warp-in might leave you a bit gas-heavy, but it's hard to tell without running it specifically to pay attention to when they go down. Most high level players take their extra gas when they feel the time is right.. it's hard to express in words, at least for me. Anyway, once the Colossus is started, put down a Twilight Council and research Charge pretty quickly, since you will be so zealot-heavy with all of that gas spending on upgrades, sentries and the Colossus + Bay. I'd say putting the forges up after Charge is a reasonable timing. Don't be too excited about taking a 3rd base unless you have good map vision, and that your follow-up into Charge and Archons is quickly en route. If you get too greedy or miss the Charge timing and he attacks, you're going to trade very unfavorably. It should be noted that this style relies on forcefields and overall army micro since rangeless Colossus can be sniped easily if you're not paying attention, and slow Zealots absolutely need the forcefields to be able to deal any damage. I've seen Squirtle do this a bit vs Heart in the GSL, and I've seen some other Korean Protoss players do the 1 rangeless Colossus into Templar transition and it seems pretty good. Once you have a 3rd base, 2/2 and Range are pretty easy to get to, and it often causes improperly portioned Terran armies, buying you time and opening up opportunities to attack him. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On October 02 2012 03:49 Clarity_nl wrote: Thank you! I need to learn how to search these forums better, I tend to get the wording or phrasing wrong... TT To the OP: I think these are all worthy of being in the OP when you get around to it. It's a lot of work and I appreciate it! edit: Looking these over, most builds seem to prefer gateway before 2nd pylon. Is this more optimal? What changes if I pylonblock his natural/third, or do these builds not allow for it? IIRC, those builds are designed for forge first rather than nexus first. If u go forge first, it is better to go gate b4 the 2nd pylon. But if ur going nexus first, specifically 17 nexus, IMO 17 forge 17 pylon 18 gateway seems to be the best in that situation. | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
On October 02 2012 10:48 blooblooblahblah wrote: IIRC, those builds are designed for forge first rather than nexus first. If u go forge first, it is better to go gate b4 the 2nd pylon. But if ur going nexus first, specifically 17 nexus, IMO 17 forge 17 pylon 18 gateway seems to be the best in that situation. Most builds prefer pylon before gateway regardless of nexus first vs forge first. Pylon first is more economical and allows you to start your 19th probe faster. Gateway first allows for faster timings and is most commonly used in some gateway timing builds. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On October 02 2012 10:59 monk. wrote: Most builds prefer pylon before gateway regardless of nexus first vs forge first. Pylon first is more economical and allows you to start your 19th probe faster. Gateway first allows for faster timings and is most commonly used in some gateway timing builds. From what i remember, and im not completely sure cos i almost always go nexus first, when u go forge first and going for a cannon after the nexus, getting the pylon before the gateway isn't as beneficial compared to the nexus first because of the slight economical differences when u build that cannon before the gateway. Pylon first is probably more economical either way, but i think it's definitely more noticeable if u go nexus first. | ||
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong748 Posts
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Chylith
Canada167 Posts
On October 02 2012 12:40 Zealot Lord wrote: I've been debating with myself for a while now whether pylon blocking the zergs expo if he goes 14 pool is worth it or not (off of a FFE) - does it actually slow down the zerg at all if they expand at their third instead? I mean, it does buy some time for you to get your nexus before cannon as the initial 4 lings will be attacking the pylon instead of going for you, but I really can't decide if thats worth spending 100minerals that early. I'd like to know what the high level Tosses think, thanks in advance! I do it, I think it's worth it because it not only distracts his lings, rather than having them run to your base, but I also send my probe right to the third after pylon blocking the nat and try and block him from getting that down for as long as possible with the probe. I feel the 100 minerals is definitely worth it, plus you can crank out a couple extra probes before you get supply blocked again. | ||
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