EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 338
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. | ||
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Drizzle.
United States6 Posts
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
what're you going to do with such a fast upgrade anyway? | ||
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong747 Posts
On September 29 2012 08:13 Drizzle. wrote: I've been experimenting with a build that takes gas before forge, in order to get upgrades ASAP. Is gas before forge/gateway simply ridiculous? Or is it viable? I assume this is PvZ - unfortunately it doesn't really make much sense resource allocation wise. Having probes on the assimilator that early on a FFE is going to cripple you economically, your nexus/cannon/gateway etc. are all going to be significantly delayed. Not to mention because everything is so delayed, there won't be any good timings to hit either. There's also no way you'd be able to hold any sort of early busts due to lack of minerals, you won't be able to walloff with buildings. Now if its gas before gate (if you doing a gateway expand) has been done a few times before on GSL - I remember Genius & Trickster doing it, however it wasn't for upgrades, it was for a quicker cheese (DTs & void rays). ----- congrats on the blue Teoita! well deserved! | ||
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garsh0p
United States30 Posts
 User was warned for this post | ||
TheEmulator
28092 Posts
On September 29 2012 18:07 garsh0p wrote: what are the most common all-ins in PvP? looking for some new builds to play around with 3 gate blink stalker all-in, dt rush, proxy gate,cannon rush. Probably a lot more than this though, I am a Terran player so my knowledge of pvp outside watching tourneys is lacking. | ||
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Lazrar
Sweden4 Posts
what are the most common all-ins in PvP? looking for some new builds to play around with The most common all-ins in my experience are: 4 gate, 1 base collosus, phoenix 4 gate, DT's into zealot/chargelot-archon attack, 4 gate blink, phoenix into mass immortal attack, and 4 gate warp prism. This is my experience from high master though... but there are tons of all-ins in PVP. | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
I am pretty good at dealing with the first 4 in the early game, they usually do little to no damage and no eco damage. Afterwards when I am at 3-5 bases however I have no idea how to deal with them. He just suicides 20 Hellions and I lose 2-3 bases worth of Probes completely destroying my economy and winning the game for Terran. I am High Master EU and I already have 3-7 Cannons per base, the problem is that I cannot kill the Hellions fast enough. Zerg is under the same pressure lately, however they can just get 30 new Drones in under 20 seconds.. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
Basically wall off everywhere with 1-2 cannons, and have a STALKER at each choke point to wall off. I also recommend making a cannon ring to deny BFH drops. On a map like Cloud, wall off your natural at the ramp slightly past your nat, have a few cannons behind it. Wall off the alleyway by your third, have some cannons there. Have some cannons on the ridge between your main/third, have some behind your natural mineral line, and voila you can push him going down your third ramp without having to worry about hellions. He's investing 2k minerals, you can invest equal or more to defend it. And static D is always more cost efficient than units. Edit: I'm nowhere near high masters, but IMO hellions are a lot like ling/bane run-bys vs Z. No sim-city and you're just dead. Or at least your probes are. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
I'm basically killing EVERY probe to do SOME damage to the mutas, it just doesn't seem worth it. but if I don't storm, the mutas kill all the probes anyway and take a lot less damage...I just can't bring myself to storm my own probes lol, should I though? | ||
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SidewinderSC2
United States236 Posts
On September 30 2012 01:26 Mavvie wrote: Is it worth it to storm a muta flock that's over my probes? I'm basically killing EVERY probe to do SOME damage to the mutas, it just doesn't seem worth it. but if I don't storm, the mutas kill all the probes anyway and take a lot less damage...I just can't bring myself to storm my own probes lol, should I though? You should already be pulling probes away from harassment anyway, so this really shouldn't be an issue. If you sit your probes in the place that they can easily kill them, no matter what you do afterward is really worth it. Just box your probes, run away and then figure out what's best to use to deal with the harassment. | ||
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Bahajinbo
Germany488 Posts
After his attack I expanded and built some Colossi to defend, but my question is: Shall I attack him off 1 base with 2 Colossi and some Immortals? | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
Basically, your expo should be around finished when his 2rax hits, and is usually right when your WG tech and 3 gates total finish. 3 more stalkers gives you 1z5s and 2 FF against whatever he has. Followup observers to scout blah blah blah, transition into standard PvT macro game (colossi into double forge, double forge into colossi, blink into fast third, etc) | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On September 30 2012 03:32 Bahajinbo wrote: How can I punish a failed 2 rax effectively? I just lost to a Terran who opened 2 rax with fast Stim and held his push barely. I opened up 2 Gate Robo after seeing the 2 rax and 1 gas. After his attack I expanded and built some Colossi to defend, but my question is: Shall I attack him off 1 base with 2 Colossi and some Immortals? 2 rax pressure or some pseudo-2 rax all-in with stim? The fact you didn't expand til after you held and lost as much units as he did (i'm defining "barely held" with this assumption) leaves no room to "punish" as the game has effectively been reset. Unless he was one-basing hard and you held with an expo, there isn't much room to transition into a reactive all-in. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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Lazrar
Sweden4 Posts
Is there a non dice rolley PvP build/heuristics? It's kind of annoying cause I end up coin tossing every game and thus have an under 50% win rate in PvP lol.... while maintaining >80% winrate in PvT and PvZ (at ~GM mmr) I think PVP is always somewhat of a dice roll. But the least dicey ones IMO are: Blink-obs, robo expand, phoenix and 2 gate pressure expand. It's kinda map dependant though. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
On September 30 2012 04:22 EtherealDeath wrote: Is there a non dice rolley PvP build/heuristics? It's kind of annoying cause I end up coin tossing every game and thus have an under 50% win rate in PvP lol.... while maintaining >80% winrate in PvT and PvZ (at ~GM mmr) I've managed a consistant 60-70% win rate in pvp over the last few months doing mostly 2-3 gate robo expand into macro. i veto antiga, taldarim and shakuras. so the remaining maps are pretty safe for such a build. It all comes down to scouting, unit control and overall understanding of whats going on however. | ||
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