EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 341
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Chandra
United States123 Posts
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
On October 02 2012 13:59 Chandra wrote: What's your preferred method for simcity on Cloud Kingdom in PvZ when defending your third (assuming you're taking a (9:00 -10:30 third)? I've tried both walling in front of my third nexus and walling off the ramp leading to my natural with little to no simcity at my third. When walling my natural ramp I feel like my third is too exposed, and the nexus can be easily sniped by roaches when my immortal count is a bit low, and there's little I can do about it. But when walling in front of my third I feel like the zerg has an opportunity to get a really good surround on my army from the natural ramp, and not splitting my army well enough can be really unforgiving. Neither option seems to be ideal. What do you guys do? the wall in at the natural is for sure the best, then you can forget 1 attackway and defend the others, that s key to defending expansion vs zerg agression | ||
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ThyLastPenguin
United Kingdom101 Posts
I would have assumed that 18 nexus would be better, as you'd have the extra probe mining for the whole time before you get that second pylon. Ofc, I'm not saying I know better, just saying what my first thoughts were. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On October 02 2012 13:59 Chandra wrote: What's your preferred method for simcity on Cloud Kingdom in PvZ when defending your third (assuming you're taking a (9:00 -10:30 third)? I've tried both walling in front of my third nexus and walling off the ramp leading to my natural with little to no simcity at my third. When walling my natural ramp I feel like my third is too exposed, and the nexus can be easily sniped by roaches when my immortal count is a bit low, and there's little I can do about it. But when walling in front of my third I feel like the zerg has an opportunity to get a really good surround on my army from the natural ramp, and not splitting my army well enough can be really unforgiving. Neither option seems to be ideal. What do you guys do? I wall my natural and also place a couple of cannons at my third, while having a spotter probe/pylon on the side and an obs down both ramps. That allows me to know which side any zerg force is coming from, and i can reposition my army correctly. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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WonDeRSC
United States234 Posts
On October 02 2012 15:59 ThyLastPenguin wrote: How come 17 nexus is the norm when going nexus first FFE? I would have assumed that 18 nexus would be better, as you'd have the extra probe mining for the whole time before you get that second pylon. Ofc, I'm not saying I know better, just saying what my first thoughts were. I think it has to do with how chronoboost lines up when going forge fast expand, and I guess some efficiency is lost when you can't build your probe as fast, so getting your expansion up faster allows you to save up more chrono to use on later probes. | ||
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Caponed
United States46 Posts
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MysteryMeat1
United States3292 Posts
On October 02 2012 16:29 Teoita wrote: I wall my natural and also place a couple of cannons at my third, while having a spotter probe/pylon on the side and an obs down both ramps. That allows me to know which side any zerg force is coming from, and i can reposition my army correctly. also a good way to deal with aggresion while taking your third is simcity with gateways and what not. If you spot an attack coming you position your army at the third with one sentry at the main ramp (with rocks). This way you don't have to worry about splitting your units perfectly. If you get the optimal 6-7 sentries you can afford to leave one sentry behind until you have enough obs out to always spot his army.. Later on i like to wall the ramp and leave a zealot on hold position. | ||
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Ea
United States121 Posts
 But my question is what is this 16 min 3 base timing they talk about? I'm mid masters and I dont think I ever attack at 16 min with 3 base. My impression of zvp is that by 16 min, blords+infestors are out, so what's the point in attacking straight into a time where zerg composition is ideal? | ||
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etherealfall
Australia476 Posts
On October 03 2012 11:29 Ea wrote: Hi guys, today I've been playing a lot of zerg who cried about my all-ins, and in particular, they all said "god it's bullshit like this and the 16 min 3 base timing that makes zvp so hard." Bullshit being ez 2 base win builds But my question is what is this 16 min 3 base timing they talk about? I'm mid masters and I dont think I ever attack at 16 min with 3 base. My impression of zvp is that by 16 min, blords+infestors are out, so what's the point in attacking straight into a time where zerg composition is ideal? You're right, it shouldn't be a 16min attack. Though it would also depend on how aggressive they were in the midgame. Perhaps their roach attacks aren't doing anything, they tech too slow and get BLs around 18-20mins? I primarily push around 13:30-14mins as a pre-BL timing. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On October 03 2012 12:11 etherealfall wrote: You're right, it shouldn't be a 16min attack. Though it would also depend on how aggressive they were in the midgame. Perhaps their roach attacks aren't doing anything, they tech too slow and get BLs around 18-20mins? I primarily push around 13:30-14mins as a pre-BL timing. Yeah, i think the 16minute attack was back when the 12 minute max was extremely common or at least some fairly heavy lair play. If ur playing someone who is rushing hive, doing a 16-17 minute timing will probably not turn out well for u. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
Anyone got a recommendation for a standard point for building the robo bay? | ||
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ujonecro
United Kingdom846 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On October 03 2012 10:44 Caponed wrote: Hi guys, I'm plat protoss, and I have a problem pvz. I basically got to plat on my (diamond level?) pvp and pvt skills alone. My problem is that I used to just either 7 gate or 2stargate zergs. These both came to a halt in mid-plat, and I've been working hard to fix up my pvz skills. I have had absolutely no luck with anything. I basically can't get into the lategame. I feel like if I play passive, I just get maxed on and rolled over. If I do something like immortal sentry, I get killed by lings or mutas. If I go stalkers, I get killed by roaches. Any tips for getting to the late game? Should I be doing timing pokes? Anyone reccommend a good safe build? Every build I come across basically gets killed by either lings or mutas, and my opponent always seems to know which to do. First off, check out this build. It uses Zealot pressure to take out his third while you can tech to any gas-intensive unit of your choice. I think the big problem you have is scouting. Have an observer in his base at all times and look at his army and tech. If his spire is making, either build a stargate and chrono phoenixes (this is only if the spire has been making for less than 20 seconds) or get some cannons and stalkers as appropriate. When you're not moving out, have some stalkers patrolling the outskirts of your base. Kill all of his scouting overlords because that's probably why. If there aren't any scouting overlords, watch for changelings. Generally, have good scouting and map control, because these two seem to be the reason Zergs are beating you so easily based on your writing. | ||
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etherealfall
Australia476 Posts
On October 03 2012 18:21 Lightspeaker wrote: Lately I've been having horrendous problems with PvP mainly due to Colossi. I've somehow lost my "feel" for when to start Colossus production and instead have got into the awful habit of doing it reactively every game, leading to repeated losses. Anyone got a recommendation for a standard point for building the robo bay? You need to let us know when and what tips you off for colossus production. Replays will help us understand your thought process. You have to understand that sometimes it can be a bit of a gamble in teching. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On October 03 2012 18:21 Lightspeaker wrote: Lately I've been having horrendous problems with PvP mainly due to Colossi. I've somehow lost my "feel" for when to start Colossus production and instead have got into the awful habit of doing it reactively every game, leading to repeated losses. Anyone got a recommendation for a standard point for building the robo bay? Generally, if you see that at full 2-base saturation you have at least 150 minerals and gas lying around after a warp cycle and you don't have things (+1 attack, charge, blink) that you immediately want researched, get that robo bay. You should make colossus when they are economically viable. No sooner, no later. If you still find yourself behind, expand to a third at a reasonable point in the game and get a second robo. For specific timings it really depends on the build you do, like the poster above me mentioned. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On October 03 2012 19:36 etherealfall wrote: You need to let us know when and what tips you off for colossus production. Replays will help us understand your thought process. You have to understand that sometimes it can be a bit of a gamble in teching. I'm at work at the moment, I'll have to try dig something out when I get home. But like I said, I tend to do it reactively. As in I'll see my opponent with a Colossus and go "oh crap, need Colossus" then throw down the Robo bay. Its an awful way to play but I seem to have completely lost my previous feel for it. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On October 04 2012 04:43 Lightspeaker wrote: I'm at work at the moment, I'll have to try dig something out when I get home. But like I said, I tend to do it reactively. As in I'll see my opponent with a Colossus and go "oh crap, need Colossus" then throw down the Robo bay. Its an awful way to play but I seem to have completely lost my previous feel for it. I'm assuming you're doing robo macro builds that try to get to the late game. In that case you should be putting down the robo bay immediately after you get an immortal out. Maybe 2 or more if you don't feel safe or your opponent is doing a blink opener. You don't need many sentries or additional stalkers early on in the game. It's perfectly fine to blindly put down a robo bay before you scout what your opponent is doing, you can always cancel it or not use it if it turns out your opponent is going phoenix or something. | ||
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ObamaToss
United States24 Posts
Thanks | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On October 04 2012 05:40 ObamaToss wrote: I was just watching Grubby cast Titan vs Select (Game 7) from the PSL. (I didnt catch the start of the game) Titan did some sort of DT into colossus style. Grubby mentioned that it was similar to By.Rain's style vs Taeja in GSL Code S Ro16. Could anyone shed some light on a basic opening for this style and how it plays out? I enjoy mid-game aggression and throwing my opponent off his game, and this seems like a cool way to do it in pvt. Thanks IIRC, Rain opened DTs (by getting 2 gases and putting 2 in each Sase style, adding a third when the scouting SCV was scared away). Dropped a base and 2 more gates (total 3 now), did some damage with his initial DTs. he then transitioned into a more standard style. I recommend the game, it was basically a perfect PvT from both sides until the end. Fantastic game. | ||
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