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On January 25 2012 07:27 RexDeusum wrote:
Drops.
I know that this kind of stuff is hard to pull off because of the threat one viking or a missile turret poses, but given the chance what kind of drops are the best to go for? I've seen sentry drops, zealot ones, templar, and mixed ones?
Are they match up based, or is it something else (if anything)?
I prefer zealot drops, but I'll occasionally mix in a sentry if the situation allows for it (FFing out the army in the main)
To me the investment of a sentry drop... not worth it, figure out what usually works best for you.
On January 25 2012 09:36 snively wrote:
Is it too much of an investment to make cannons in my base if the terran is trying clockshee harass but you know he might just all-in you with a 1/1/1?
edit: ^ xanatoss, i like your name. and your signature. ^_^
Clockshee?
If you have the resources for it and you've scouted a 1-1-1, why not.
I tend to get a cannon or two at my natural if I was unable to kill the harassing banshees or if I messed my build up or got sloppy with my macro. It's not too much of an investment if you fast expanded, and you know he's 1-1-1ing. If you 3-gate robod, or did a 2 gate or if you're not sure he's 1-1-1ing, don't get cannons.
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Has anyone got any good recomended videos to watch when learning Protoss? Except apollos ones.
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On January 25 2012 18:17 ODKStevez wrote:
Has anyone got any good recomended videos to watch when learning Protoss? Except apollos ones.
watch streams are better IMO,i always watch Hongun/MC/Huk/Naniwa and i learn alot.
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I have two questions.
1. PvP. What is the best follow-up after defending a cannon rush knowing I have a faster gas and core? I've recently lost a game when my opponent got fast sneaky expo (gold - antigua) while I went for 1 base colossus and he managed to hold and eventually win with void ray/immortal/zealot.
2. PvT how to best scout/prepare for 3 rax all-in (2 tech-lab, reactor) when going 1 gate expo. I've lost a game on Shakuras where terran went 3 rax but only shown units from his 1 rax at the natural ramp. So I didn't see an expo, but I assumed 1 rax tech-lab expand. He then killed my probe at xel'naga, again with 3rd of his force, while I went double forge, just to lose half a minute later after seeing his push already on the way with my first observer and having second one in production. I'm sure if I knew it was coming I could react accordingly, but how can I scout it in time?
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On January 25 2012 20:53 habermas wrote:
I have two questions.
1. PvP. What is the best follow-up after defending a cannon rush knowing I have a faster gas and core? I've recently lost a game when my opponent got fast sneaky expo (gold - antigua) while I went for 1 base colossus and he managed to hold and eventually win with void ray/immortal/zealot.
2. PvT how to best scout/prepare for 3 rax all-in (2 tech-lab, reactor) when going 1 gate expo. I've lost a game on Shakuras where terran went 3 rax but only shown units from his 1 rax at the natural ramp. So I didn't see an expo, but I assumed 1 rax tech-lab expand. He then killed my probe at xel'naga, again with 3rd of his force, while I went double forge, just to lose half a minute later after seeing his push already on the way with my first observer and having second one in production. I'm sure if I knew it was coming I could react accordingly, but how can I scout it in time?
1. I do a warp prism 4 gate. They have to throw down cannons at their front to protect themselves then you can just use a warp prism to bypass those cannons.
2. he sounded very sneaky. I sometimes leave a probe sitting behind the minerals on his expansion where if he walks out with troops he won't spot it. sometimes he might search for it but often you get lucky, and when you notice an expansion is very late you can start panicking and make units rather than forges. anybody have any idea on the timing of when a techlab expand should either float or plant the cc at natural, I just kind of do it by feel?
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On January 25 2012 19:05 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 18:17 ODKStevez wrote:
Has anyone got any good recomended videos to watch when learning Protoss? Except apollos ones. Watch either Grubby or Axslav's stream. Both of them commentate their games as they're playing, so you end up learning a lot about why they make the decisions they make.
this. axslav is the best protoss streamer to watch to learn and he'll answer your questions or queries in chat
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On January 25 2012 18:17 ODKStevez wrote:
Has anyone got any good recomended videos to watch when learning Protoss? Except apollos ones.
haters gonna hate, but watch CombatEx's vods on youtube. They are very informative.
User was warned for this post
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On January 25 2012 18:17 ODKStevez wrote:
Has anyone got any good recomended videos to watch when learning Protoss? Except apollos ones.
Grubby, Axslav, MaNa - they commentate a lot which greatly helps out if you want to learn something
HerO, Naniwa, HuK - they can teach you a lot of interesting builds but pay attention to HerO and Naniwa's decision making, you can learn a lot from it. Well about HuK, he's just awesome, watch him :D
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Northern Ireland26270 Posts
I've been hammering all sorts of early Terran aggressions with MC's 1 gate FE to the extent that I don't think I ever lose in early game
My friend, who's top 2 masters has this build he's come up with that hits my base around the time WG finishes, with a bunch of hellions, marauders with concussive shell and a few pulled SCVs, he can put up a bunker at my natural, runby to my main or any number of things. He gets his expand up behind this as well and gets out stim and medivacs at close to standard timings.
The problem isn't holding the push, when I devised some blind counters I was able to hold it, the problem is knowing it's coming. If I see a non gas with my probe obviously this build isn't coming, if I see one gas it's a possibility. I try to poke the ramp with the initial units but thus far have only got confirmation of marauders and a few marines so that doesn't outright rule out other builds.
I've tried camping my ramp with sentries but all that does is delay him briefly, I've tried engaging him outside his base but concussive shell makes that difficult. The only response that beat the push was going gate/robo/expand/gate and getting a fast chronoed immortal
He hasn't lost with this build when he hasn't botched the build order against high masters and GM players either, and said that I actually had a tighter opener than a lot of these players and I still couldn't hold it.
Sorry for the lack of detailed timings, I'm currently away from my PC so don't have the replays to hand. My friend also swore me to not reveal the build, so I'm respecting that. If there's insufficient detail to give me advice then apologies for wasting valuable reading time.
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http://drop.sc/98013
Need help analysing this replay. We both went phoenixes, I opted for 2gates and a robo while he did three gates. I was a phoenix down after some bad control. I didn't see his expo, but I saw the low ground pylon which made me assume he was expanding which ended up being correct. After seeing that I moved out with some units, but the engage didn't go so well for me.
Any advice on this rep would be very appreciated  ♥
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United States8476 Posts
On January 26 2012 05:12 Lemonayd wrote:http://drop.sc/98013Need help analysing this replay. We both went phoenixes, I opted for 2gates and a robo while he did three gates. I was a phoenix down after some bad control. I didn't see his expo, but I saw the low ground pylon which made me assume he was expanding which ended up being correct. After seeing that I moved out with some units, but the engage didn't go so well for me. Any advice on this rep would be very appreciated ♥
Your biggest problem was that you didn't know how to play phoenix vs phoenix. This matchup is very delicate and whoever has more phoenix has a HUGE advantage. That being said, you had a much earlier stargate, which gave you the advantage, but you threw away 2 phoenix for free, leaving you with 1 less phoenix than he had; this is unforgivable. I would say that whoever has more phoenix in phoenix vs phoenix wins 90% of games.
In phoenix wars, you want gateway support, so 2 gateways is definitely not enough. Also, make an observer with your robo if you have excess gas.
Later on, you tried to allin with only 2 gateways and an immortal. You don't want immortals in phoenix wars unless you're sure you can win the phoenix wars. Never allin with 2 gateways. You need at the very least 3 or your army will always be weaker than your opponent's army due to you not being able to throw all your resources into your army at the time of the fight.
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On January 26 2012 07:50 NrGmonk wrote:
Your biggest problem was that you didn't know how to play phoenix vs phoenix. This matchup is very delicate and whoever has more phoenix has a HUGE advantage. That being said, you had a much earlier stargate, which gave you the advantage, but you threw away 2 phoenix for free, leaving you with 1 less phoenix than he had; this is unforgivable. I would say that whoever has more phoenix in phoenix vs phoenix wins 90% of games.
In phoenix wars, you want gateway support, so 2 gateways is definitely not enough. Also, make an observer with your robo if you have excess gas.
Later on, you tried to allin with only 2 gateways and an immortal. You don't want immortals in phoenix wars unless you're sure you can win the phoenix wars. Never allin with 2 gateways. You need at the very least 3 or your army will always be weaker than your opponent's army due to you not being able to throw all your resources into your army at the time of the fight.
Thank you for the very solid feedback! My only remaining question is, is there a point when both players have gone phoenix were it just is not the right call to get more (phoenix)? Most people afaik stop @ 4 when they're not also on star tech, but maybe it's better to just stop once you get blink?
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Not really a help request, but I just saw on White-Ra's stream he did an insanely awesome strat as a reaction to standard 2 base terran play. He went gate robo gate, got a robo bay immediately after his nexus, and took a third at around 9:30 with 2 ranged colossus and a very small group of gateway units. He then kept a colossus in his main as part of a drop defense squad and proceeded to up his probe count and build up to 9 gate, double forge, storm deathball etc.
Seemed like a totally sick awesome way to play pvt. Anyone have thoughts? I gave it a try in a few games, seems like it works if you can defend the inevitable mass drop harass you will be facing.
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On January 26 2012 08:35 Drowsy wrote:
Not really a help request, but I just saw on White-Ra's stream he did an insanely awesome strat as a reaction to standard 2 base terran play. He went gate robo gate, got a robo bay immediately after his nexus, and took a third at around 9:30 with 2 ranged colossus and a very small group of gateway units. He then kept a colossus in his main as part of a drop defense squad and proceeded to up his probe count and build up to 9 gate, double forge, storm deathball etc.
Seemed like a totally sick awesome way to play pvt. Anyone have thoughts? I gave it a try in a few games, seems like it works if you can defend the inevitable mass drop harass you will be facing.
would need a time stamp on the vod to say for sure.
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I'll dig it up once the VOD is up, he's still streaming. It was on Temple and he ended up losing the game (he did get up to 5 base colo storm but lost a big engagement in the middle). Just to clarify, it differed from a typical gate robo gate nexus robo bay style in that he went straight for the 3rd base while on 2 gates and a robo instead of adding gates.
I thought it was bizarre to use a colossus and a handful of stalkers as drop defense, you almost never see this and it's usually all the colossi together and maybe a few gateway units left at home to defend drops. It makes perfect sense though if you stop and think about it; a colossi and 3-4 stalkers + a few warpins can pretty easily shut down a double medivac drop in your main and the equivalent value in pure gateway units + warpins will get destroyed by a double medivac drop.
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Okay I finally found it again. It's in this video starting at 41:53. I'm going to play a few games with it and then make a [d] thread. Probably won't revolutionize pvt or anything given how weak gate robo gate can be vs 111, but definitely worth having in one's arsenal against fast cc builds or 2rax expands.
http://www.twitch.tv/whitera/b/306549542
At 10:30 in gametime, he's got 2 colossi with range, a 3rd that's just been started, 4 sentries, 3 stalkers, and 2 zealots, and only 2 warpgates and 1 robotics. Seems like there's almost nothing a 2 base terran can throw at you at this point in the game that would force a cancel on your third.
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looks like the fast 3rd was a response to the lack of addons with the 1st obs scout. looks like a solid reaction to me!
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I am a top plat toss with a PvZ question.
Lately all i have been losing to is a 2 base all-in (i say all in because the stop droning and do not take a 3rd)
with just mass roaches followed up by lings if needed.
This is usually on maps like shattered metal after i ffe. I try to go 6/7 gate but it seems like as soon as i get to their base they are also moving out (usually meet mid map) with a much bigger attack than my own leading me to lose my army and then the game short after.
I always send at least 1-2 zealots to scout for a 3rd. is the correct response to no 3rd sit back and get a robo?
I also feel if i ffe on these maps i provoke a roach rush, however i feel as though if i gateway expand i am also always behind. Do not have a replay atm not on my main computer. Any general tips will be much appreciated.
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Hi all, I'm new to toss and PvP makes absolutely no sense to me at all. I've been doing some weird 3 stalker rush build that I sorta copied from watching someone else, but I'm wondering whether there's any one 'standard' or safe way that I can play PvP so that I can start to learn about the match-up more.
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