EPTOk... so they are ok against mauraders (for the cost/value), but only if they are not focus fired. I can handle microing them manualy (kind of...) and targets, but since they are slow they are often stuck behind other units and out of range of the maurader (which, iff the player is smart, is located BEHIND the marines... marines in range of immortal = bad). I can see the value if things go the way you want them too, but if enemy is not siege tanking or mecching, what do u think about them PvT?
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 137
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MooSlapper
United States113 Posts
Ok... so they are ok against mauraders (for the cost/value), but only if they are not focus fired. I can handle microing them manualy (kind of...) and targets, but since they are slow they are often stuck behind other units and out of range of the maurader (which, iff the player is smart, is located BEHIND the marines... marines in range of immortal = bad). I can see the value if things go the way you want them too, but if enemy is not siege tanking or mecching, what do u think about them PvT? | ||
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MooSlapper
United States113 Posts
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Geiko
France2053 Posts
On December 16 2011 22:14 MooSlapper wrote: Ok.... PvT & Immortals. Are they really worth it? Maybe ONE before the collosi, but is even THAT worth it or should I just tech to collosi and/or get more units. Ok... so they are ok against mauraders (for the cost/value), but only if they are not focus fired. I can handle microing them manualy (kind of...) and targets, but since they are slow they are often stuck behind other units and out of range of the maurader (which, iff the player is smart, is located BEHIND the marines... marines in range of immortal = bad). I can see the value if things go the way you want them too, but if enemy is not siege tanking or mecching, what do u think about them PvT? Immortals extremely good at doing what they do. It's good to get them : -against a 1 base 3 rax all-in -if you want to bust a bunkered terran with a 2 base timing push. -against 1 base marine/tank all-in if you can scout it in time -against a 1-1-1 with siege tanks -generally against marauder heavy compositions. Against standard MMM compositions, I agree that you shouldn't get too many and focus more on colos or HTs. | ||
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InvXXVII
Canada242 Posts
Is there a max number of hotkeys I should be dedicating to my units? Currently My units are separated into three mutually exclusive hotkeys, but would it be inefficient to use more than three? I didn't play a lot of Brood War, so I'm really curious to know what BW players think, especially since it only allowed twelve units per group. | ||
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TypeSuN
Korea (South)32 Posts
Coming from broodwar this wasnt hard to do. For the Sc2 Starters we have customizable Hotkeys which will make a lot of things easier. 2 Main Army hotkeys 1 SpellCaster Hotkey / Collosus 1 Hurasshotkey (Im very fond of Warp prism) and ofc 1 Obs hotkey. In addition i recently added 1 more for a 2nd obs. At the very beginning it will be very hard to adjust to. My friends needed about 2 months to fully adjust to all the new keys. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On December 17 2011 03:48 InvXXVII wrote: I posted this somewhere else, by no one answered, so here it is again: Is there a max number of hotkeys I should be dedicating to my units? Currently My units are separated into three mutually exclusive hotkeys, but would it be inefficient to use more than three? I didn't play a lot of Brood War, so I'm really curious to know what BW players think, especially since it only allowed twelve units per group. Only do what's comfortable. I played BW, and had units in 1-4, fliers in 5 and or 6, and comsat on 0. In SC2 it varies with the stage of the game, as toss I split units based on the other units I have. This is my MO, very habitual at this point, usually the idea is have a caster as the head in each command group (so don't combine HT and sentry, sentry and blink stalkers is ok cause thats just 1 tab) and set 3 and 4 to lone units like scouts, obs, DT, WP. Here's more detail: Gateway only (early game): everything on 1, scout probes usually on 2... if attack comes I switch zeals to 2 and everything else to 1, scout probe to 3... sentries head the command card in 1. Gateway + Immortals: everything on 1, if attack comes I split immortals to 2 and everything else to 1, sentries head the command card in 1. Gateway + Colossus or Gateway/Immortal + Colossus: Everything but colossus on 1, sentries head command card in 1, colossus only in 2. Gateway + HT: Gate on 1, sentry heads command card, HT on 2 Gateway + DT: Gate on 1, sentry heads command card, DT group on 2, or 2 and 3 if I split them Gateway + HT + DT: Gate on 1, sentry heads command card, HT on 2, DT on 3, or 3 and 4 if I split them Gateway + HT + Colossus: Gate/Colossus on 1, HT on 2, mental note to manually move colossus around. Gateway + Phoenix: Gate on 1, Phoenix 2 Gateway + Phoenix + VR: Gate/VR on 1, Phoenix on 2, lone VRs without control group cause I usually looking at them anyway, or on 3 if available. 1 Observer always on 3, rest are without group. Warp Prism always goes on 3, has top priority. Bumps observer to 4. Warpgates, Robo, Stargate: All on 5, tought myself to tab through them. Nexii: All on 6-0, but I am pretty good about hitting 6 now... I put them on the last ones because I would miss 6 a lot in the beginning and hit 7 or 8, but that's been cleaned up. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On December 16 2011 22:16 MooSlapper wrote: Oh... forgot to ask. What's best way to handle PvT hellion run bys and harass? It happens so rare, when it happened I didn't realize how damaging they are too probes. U can lose all ur probes in seconds. low amounts of stalkers seem to suck and u cant always ahve so many around. Immortals are slow as shit. If he's going for hellions, he's going for drop, or mech. Both of which are easily scouted. You can play defensively against both, so it really shouldn't be that big of a problem? Stalkers can kill hellions pretty quickly, but you should be able to split your probes decently if they are running in 3-4 hellions. | ||
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Mzh
16 Posts
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monk
United States8477 Posts
On December 17 2011 10:53 Mzh wrote: How the hell do I stop a cannon rush? Even if I go blind 12 forge I still lose. Don't get it at all. Replay here: http://www.mediafire.com/?8jk9wusgv5c2hsh Scout it and kill his cannons with probes. | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
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Mzh
16 Posts
On December 17 2011 11:20 NrGmonk wrote: Scout it and kill his cannons with probes. Wow, thanks. That worked better than I thought it would. I just remember someone somewhere saying that it was pointless to attack with probes, but it worked out. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On December 16 2011 07:57 Alejandrisha wrote: for me it's less of a recent realization, and more stemming from my hopes that the collective brotosses around here will adhere to the principles of brotosserly love and not lash out at one another just because it might feel real nice for a min cuz it's the internets I think that's just a gentle reminder to be a bro and not a tosser, fellas. Edit/ 2 weeks off due to work, boxing, and training for a New Year tramp; back on ladder today. >< | ||
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Tingles
Australia225 Posts
On December 17 2011 11:31 Sroobz wrote: What is a solid PvP build for diamond/low masters? Right now I'm just blindly going 26 Nexus on 1gate/core(zealot, stalker, stalker). Are there any safe ways to expand quickly AND protect vs. the hardest early pressures(quick 4gate & 3 stalker rush)? I'm going 1 gate robo > add 2 gates ( maybe can get away with not adding them depending > twilight > blink> blink stalker with obs harass to keep the opponent defensive, then drop a nexus and crank out chargelots and immortals. Add Colossus if you see he is. Get upgrades. I've got a very good winrate using that type of play. It's not the same every time, but it's still very good to loosing go for that. Decently safe against 4gate, will have immortal out in time with sentries, but need to practice it. Havent' tried vs pheonix play, but if your going heavy on blink stalkers you should be able to defend pheonix harass fairly decently. I've not got the balls to go for such an early nexus. Kudos. I imagine your games go - He doesn't go for early pressure and looses pretty hard to your superior econ, or he does go for early pressure and you usually die. Hope it helps! | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
On December 17 2011 11:48 Tingles wrote: I'm going 1 gate robo > add 2 gates ( maybe can get away with not adding them depending > twilight > blink> blink stalker with obs harass to keep the opponent defensive, then drop a nexus and crank out chargelots and immortals. Add Colossus if you see he is. Get upgrades. I've got a very good winrate using that type of play. It's not the same every time, but it's still very good to loosing go for that. Decently safe against 4gate, will have immortal out in time with sentries, but need to practice it. Havent' tried vs pheonix play, but if your going heavy on blink stalkers you should be able to defend pheonix harass fairly decently. I've not got the balls to go for such an early nexus. Kudos. I imagine your games go - He doesn't go for early pressure and looses pretty hard to your superior econ, or he does go for early pressure and you usually die. Hope it helps! Is there any possible way to expand EARLIER and safe? Like if he goes 2 gas, expand at 26 supply? If it's one gas it's more than likely 4 gate and your build is perfect for that, but I'm looking for expos that occur before 2+gates/robo. Thanks though. Edit: Yes it's ballsy  But the scrubs in Diamond are easy to deal with. | ||
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Selendis
Australia509 Posts
My question is: What is the scariest thing I need to watch out for while using this build? And how do I deal with it? Liquipedia doesn't seem to say and the 1gate expand thread only vaguely references1 rax fe as a BO counter... | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On December 17 2011 11:51 Sroobz wrote: Is there any possible way to expand EARLIER and safe? Like if he goes 2 gas, expand at 26 supply? If it's one gas it's more than likely 4 gate and your build is perfect for that, but I'm looking for expos that occur before 2+gates/robo. Thanks though. Edit: Yes it's ballsy But the scrubs in Diamond are easy to deal with.You cannot safely expand fast in PvP, not without knowing, for a fact, that your opponent is not 4 gating or doing any sort of pressure build at all, and can't bypass your front defenses (You'd need cannons to even hold 3 gate pressure with a FE). The problem there is if he goes blink or gets a warp prism, you're in deep trouble. | ||
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Latchy
Australia121 Posts
On December 17 2011 12:11 Selendis wrote: I recently adopted the 1 gate FE in my PvT (MC's version). So far things have gone pretty well. I've been able to deal damage with my first zealot and two stalkers, I always have my economy up and running and an obs up in time for banshees and 1-1-1. I haven't encountered anything I haven't been able to deal with...yet. My question is: What is the scariest thing I need to watch out for while using this build? And how do I deal with it? Liquipedia doesn't seem to say and the 1gate expand thread only vaguely references1 rax fe as a BO counter... It can be done, but the scariest build to face is the 2 rax one reactor/tech lab with conc shells. This requires intensive micro and sometimes even probe usage, but it can be fought off. Another scary build is Geiko's 3rax marine/scv all-in. This again requires extremely precise micro and the delaying of your expo, but it can be done. This is the build im talking of http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223517 | ||
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InvXXVII
Canada242 Posts
On December 16 2011 22:16 MooSlapper wrote: Oh... forgot to ask. What's best way to handle PvT hellion run bys and harass? It happens so rare, when it happened I didn't realize how damaging they are too probes. U can lose all ur probes in seconds. low amounts of stalkers seem to suck and u cant always ahve so many around. Immortals are slow as shit. A good sim city helps tons. I usually block off the little space between the vespene geysers and the map to prevent the hellions to get to the back of the mineral line. I would also block off the space between the geyser and the nexus if I deem it necessary. Also keep a canon behind your mineral line when you arrive to the mid-late game (given he opened with hellion or banshee); it eases your mind a lot. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 17 2011 13:36 Latchy wrote: It can be done, but the scariest build to face is the 2 rax one reactor/tech lab with conc shells. This requires intensive micro and sometimes even probe usage, but it can be fought off. Another scary build is Geiko's 3rax marine/scv all-in. This again requires extremely precise micro and the delaying of your expo, but it can be done. This is the build im talking of http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223517 Yeah wtf. Geiko is a fellow brotoss. I have played some practice games with him. And then he makes THAT? Way to help the protoss race :p I have to agree the 2rax is scariest though. But only if you mistake it for the 1-1-1. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On December 17 2011 23:20 Latedi wrote: Yeah wtf. Geiko is a fellow brotoss. I have played some practice games with him. And then he makes THAT? Way to help the protoss race :p I have to agree the 2rax is scariest though. But only if you mistake it for the 1-1-1. life time brotoss banishment | ||
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