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Semi-quick question:
I just played a game against a terran who turtled pretty hard (planetaries at every expansion, defensive planetaries, ton of turrets, etc.) and I was always at least 1 expansion ahead, but I was never able to pressure expansions. How can I put
pressure back on a terran who turtles this hard. Should I try to be ahead in economy or go low eco and try to kill him in one doom push?
P.s. He made about 10 reapers throughout the game so I was never able to take my whole army anywhere. Also, I had some really stupid mistakes that made me lose, but I was also playing much better than he. Thanks a lot!
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On December 14 2011 09:22 Mordanis wrote:
Semi-quick question:
I just played a game against a terran who turtled pretty hard (planetaries at every expansion, defensive planetaries, ton of turrets, etc.) and I was always at least 1 expansion ahead, but I was never able to pressure expansions. How can I put
pressure back on a terran who turtles this hard. Should I try to be ahead in economy or go low eco and try to kill him in one doom push?
P.s. He made about 10 reapers throughout the game so I was never able to take my whole army anywhere. Also, I had some really stupid mistakes that made me lose, but I was also playing much better than he. Thanks a lot!
Looking at this I would like to ask for a replay for a better a idea and more detail on what happened. With that said, I can give you a very general idea on what you should do but the infomation and what you did worng could be better explain, IF YOU GAVE A REPLAY! .
Nonetheless here the very general idea you should keep the pressure on the terran by keeping him on 2-3 bases if possable and expanding a lot you should have about [depending on map] 5-8 bases, able to make anything you want and than some. The other problem with the reapers from what you told me there was only 10, just make 6-7 stalkers with blink and a observer to chase them around.
Again please post a replay.
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kk I'm on a different computer right now and I'll get a replay up in about 5 minutes, and edit it in here. Before I go, I somehow got onto move command at an engagement at my fourth and could have won easily if I had not lost so much there. So that is the main thing that made me lose, but I'd like to know what to do in a similar situation :D
Edit: Woohoo! finally got it!
hopefully here
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Can anyone give advice on how to deal with early pressure? I go for macro games so I use 1 gate FE in PvT, FFE PvZ and Blink/Observer > Expand in PvP but I end up having to fight tooth and nail against 2 rax, 3 rax, 4 gate, 6 pool, Roach rush, nydus. My macro is pretty strong but my micro is awful and maybe my scouting isn't so good. Any tips on how to just not die when going for economical builds?
Platinum Protoss for reference.
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Northern Ireland26903 Posts
Pmed you man, but I only addressed PvT if that's ok
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On December 14 2011 10:06 Mordanis wrote:kk I'm on a different computer right now and I'll get a replay up in about 5 minutes, and edit it in here. Before I go, I somehow got onto move command at an engagement at my fourth and could have won easily if I had not lost so much there. So that is the main thing that made me lose, but I'd like to know what to do in a similar situation :D Edit: Woohoo! finally got it! hopefully here
Okay, this is going to be long.
For the a summary you need to scout a lot more during the 5:17 - 8:16 you were completely blind as to what your opponent was doing (even if you had the tower which is good) you should poke the terran's base more with a probe or even a stalker( you could leave outside to scout a expand or even what runs down the ramp.). Next at 8:16 you observer did scout him turtle, with that you can expand earlier than you did and tech/double forge with less gateways. Make more observers to scout more you had none after the first one you made died, having about 3-4 is normal and is really good for knowing your opponent's army movement and base count. Be more active with your army, your army stay in front of your natural for a really long time. you just need fix those problem you should be good.
Key Points To Work On
- move your army more
- need more map vision
- be more aggressive ( poke the front and think about the size of both armies)
- if your opponent plays like that you can be more greedy but within reason ( expand and tech way more freely)
- take the Xel Neg tower
- build more gateways in late game
Reason For Losing
-no map vision
-bad army placement
- not greedy enough (playing way to safe)
complete break down of game
+ Show Spoiler +
4:17-5:17 - should leave a probe to spot anything coming down ramp/expands.
7:51 - 2 more gateways is abit much off of 2 base if no pressure is put on opponent and no scouting info.
8:16 - your 2nd scout really late, this should be the 3rd or 4th scout.
9:00 - you look around for other bases the opponent could've taken which is good.
12:25 - you put down more gateways, when you saw your oppponent turtle.
12:56 - your 3rd is really slow for having a turtleling opponent and should tech way sooner.
14:00 - you did put down your 4th fast which is good.
17:00 - really should poke at the opponent's defences.
20:42 - you moved your army with the attack command down losing a lot more then you should have.
22:40 - your being aggressive without having a good army unit count.
25:26 - don't attack down and up ramps with zealot/archon (could've avoid if you had more vision on map)
26:38 - again attacking without a good army unit count
30:00 again attacking up ramp (avoidable if you had more observers)
Hopefully this help,
next time just post the replay please.
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On December 14 2011 12:20 SkyBlaze wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 10:06 Mordanis wrote:kk I'm on a different computer right now and I'll get a replay up in about 5 minutes, and edit it in here. Before I go, I somehow got onto move command at an engagement at my fourth and could have won easily if I had not lost so much there. So that is the main thing that made me lose, but I'd like to know what to do in a similar situation :D Edit: Woohoo! finally got it! hopefully here Okay, this is going to be long. For the a summary you need to scout a lot more during the 5:17 - 8:16 you were completely blind as to what your opponent was doing (even if you had the tower which is good) you should poke the terran's base more with a probe or even a stalker( you could leave outside to scout a expand or even what runs down the ramp.). Next at 8:16 you observer did scout him turtle, with that you can expand earlier than you did and tech/double forge with less gateways. Make more observers to scout more you had none after the first one you made died, having about 3-4 is normal and is really good for knowing your opponent's army movement and base count. Be more active with your army, your army stay in front of your natural for a really long time. you just need fix those problem you should be good. Key Points To Work On - move your army more - need more map vision - be more aggressive ( poke the front and think about the size of both armies) - if your opponent plays like that you can be more greedy but within reason ( expand and tech way more freely) - take the Xel Neg tower - build more gateways in late game Reason For Losing -no map vision -bad army placement - not greedy enough (playing way to safe) complete break down of game + Show Spoiler +
4:17-5:17 - should leave a probe to spot anything coming down ramp/expands.
7:51 - 2 more gateways is abit much off of 2 base if no pressure is put on opponent and no scouting info.
8:16 - your 2nd scout really late, this should be the 3rd or 4th scout.
9:00 - you look around for other bases the opponent could've taken which is good.
12:25 - you put down more gateways, when you saw your oppponent turtle.
12:56 - your 3rd is really slow for having a turtleling opponent and should tech way sooner.
14:00 - you did put down your 4th fast which is good.
17:00 - really should poke at the opponent's defences.
20:42 - you moved your army with the attack command down losing a lot more then you should have.
22:40 - your being aggressive without having a good army unit count.
25:26 - don't attack down and up ramps with zealot/archon (could've avoid if you had more vision on map)
26:38 - again attacking without a good army unit count
30:00 again attacking up ramp (avoidable if you had more observers)
Hopefully this help, next time just post the replay please.
I saw the ridiculously late gas so I knew that he couldn't be all inning before my observer got into his base, at which point I was so confused that I thought that he had tried to ninja expo (I had a probe running around the map). Before the point where I saw his expo, I was expecting some really weird allin with upgrades, 3 rax, a factory, a reactor port, with reapers. And I really think that If I had attack moved instead of move commanded into his army around my fourth I could have counterattacked and won.
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Russian Federation26 Posts
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im switching to toss again i think 
are FFE vs Zerg, 3 Gate expansion vs Terran & 3 Gate Robo vs Toss solid Build orders you would recommend for lower levels? ATM i think im gonna go higher cause i played toss alot a while ago.
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On December 15 2011 01:21 Tommyyy wrote:im switching to toss again i think are FFE vs Zerg, 3 Gate expansion vs Terran & 3 Gate Robo vs Toss solid Build orders you would recommend for lower levels? ATM i think im gonna go higher cause i played toss alot a while ago.
I'd recommend you to use 1gate expand vs terran and 3gate robo twilight against protoss.
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If I went 1-gate expand and my enemy (terran) scouted me and pressured me with 2racks, what should my reaction be?
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When would be a good time to make a first attack against a Terran player going Marauder-Hellion?
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On December 15 2011 12:32 IronOutlaw wrote:
When would be a good time to make a first attack against a Terran player going Marauder-Hellion?
i'm assuming you're talking about a 1 base build, in which case the ideal answer is never
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On December 15 2011 12:17 imEnex wrote:
If I went 1-gate expand and my enemy (terran) scouted me and pressured me with 2racks, what should my reaction be?
depends on his addons and presence of expo. 12/16 reactor first then tech lab means he will hit you with 1 maurader 5 marines and x scvs. you want to smash this decisively and then pick off any ralled units you can with stalkers. proceed to play greedily instead of all-inning. the expo off this kind of build is much later than a standard build, so he can't really put together a solid timing until he has medivacs out. what does this mean to you? i'll tell u. cb the fuck out of probes and get a faster robo than usual and get colo out as i find they are stronger in this type of game than my standard double forge/chargelot and eventual ht style with lots of immorts
against 12/17 tech lab first which is more common, more safe, and more economical, he will hit you with 2 mauraders and 1 marine and maybe a reaper. this is really just a poke and i can't really tell you much about what to do here as this is quite general
edit on 12/17 tech lab first: this poke is pretty much just a unit check: if you have 2 stalkers a zealot and maybe a sentry you're fine
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United States8476 Posts
On December 15 2011 12:39 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 12:17 imEnex wrote:
If I went 1-gate expand and my enemy (terran) scouted me and pressured me with 2racks, what should my reaction be? depends on his addons and presence of expo. 12/16 reactor first then tech lab means he will hit you with 1 maurader 5 marines and x scvs. you want to smash this decisively and then pick off any ralled units you can with stalkers. proceed to play greedily instead of all-inning. the expo off this kind of build is much later than a standard build, so he can't really put together a solid timing until he has medivacs out. what does this mean to you? i'll tell u. cb the fuck out of probes and get a faster robo than usual and get colo out as i find they are stronger in this type of game than my standard double forge/chargelot and eventual ht style with lots of immorts against 12/17 tech lab first which is more common, more safe, and more economical, he will hit you with 2 mauraders and 1 marine and maybe a reaper. this is really just a poke and i can't really tell you much about what to do here as this is quite general edit on 12/17 tech lab first: this poke is pretty much just a unit check: if you have 2 stalkers a zealot and maybe a sentry you're fine
I almost never see 12/17 tech lab/naked in pro level games, but for some reason I see it a lot on NA GM level for some reason. Also, 12/17 usually hits with 1 marine 2 marauder and another marine following closely behind with either marine/marauder or marine/reaper reinforcements.
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tech lab first implies reactor second imo ^^
yeah 2 rax tech lab first builds are pretty much gone for the most part, except some people still do reaper expands. it's pretty much 12/16 into whatever or 1 rax cc (that being gasless 90% of the time; 10% marauder or reaper expands i'd say  )
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What is the optimal build for a standard 1 gate FE in PvT? I find that if I want to continually make units out of my 1 gate, drop an expo quickly, and build gates 2 and 3 so they finish around the time warp gate finishes I always end up having to cut probes at some point. This may also be because I usually get 2 gases when I 1 gate FE. Should I just get 1 gas and build stalkers instead of sentries? Usually when I 1 gate FE with 2 gas I have a lot of gas banked which I blow on sentries, which helps if they do some sort of stim/bio pressure. I feel like I'm definitely doing something wrong as I shouldn't be cutting probes in a FE build. I just hate skimping on units early game and having gates 2 and 3 finish after WG.
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On December 15 2011 16:21 -YoricK- wrote:
What is the optimal build for a standard 1 gate FE in PvT? I find that if I want to continually make units out of my 1 gate, drop an expo quickly, and build gates 2 and 3 so they finish around the time warp gate finishes I always end up having to cut probes at some point. This may also be because I usually get 2 gases when I 1 gate FE. Should I just get 1 gas and build stalkers instead of sentries? Usually when I 1 gate FE with 2 gas I have a lot of gas banked which I blow on sentries, which helps if they do some sort of stim/bio pressure. I feel like I'm definitely doing something wrong as I shouldn't be cutting probes in a FE build. I just hate skimping on units early game and having gates 2 and 3 finish after WG.
there are lots of guides on this so I won't be too specific, but almost all modern optimized 1 gate fe builds vs terran do cut probes at some point, usually when 16 are on mins and 3 on each gas; for instance, 30 food fe's with 2 gases will have 23-24 probes and 3 2-food units in the books when the nexus goes down, and probe production is halted until additional production facilities and a pylon are added
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EPT
