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The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 134

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action.
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France2034 Posts
December 12 2011 19:47 GMT
#2661
On December 13 2011 03:48 elgringo wrote:
So i know that in PvT its standard to get 3 gates and a robo after a 1 gate expo, but when do you add these structures? are you supposed to cut probes and units or what? and wth am i supposed to chronoboost?

Any help is appreciated.


Try not to cut probes as that defeats the purpose of fast expanding.

Building order depends on what type of 1 gate FE you are using.

If you are using the zealot stalker sentry 1 gate FE, you want to add 2 more gates directly after nexus, then an extra gas, then robo then an extra gate.

Of course if you scout an early Command center you don't need the robo and can either go for a pure gateway pressure / all-in, faster double forge, or any other tech.

Chrono boost your warp gate, and later save chronoboost for forge upgrades or chronoed observer.
geiko.813 (EU)
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France2034 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 19:51:57
December 12 2011 19:49 GMT
#2662
On December 13 2011 04:32 tHeWayyy wrote:
Well, what is the way to win against a zerg who did a fast third ?

Pool
2nd Hatch
4 Zerlings and 3rd

I try to do 4 gates on xel or 7 gates on metalopolis but no way to win. He had just to stop droning and prod zerlings or roach like a mad.

Need advice


Doing a fast third against FFE is standard play. No one can answer to "how do you win against standard play.

Check out the two recent guides about how to play PvZ after FFE
[G] The PvZ of Gods
[G] Heroic PvZ

Or post a replay so we can analyze particular problems you are having.
geiko.813 (EU)
fatalities
Profile Joined November 2010
United States91 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 21:16:36
December 12 2011 20:33 GMT
#2663
On December 12 2011 15:48 SoKHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2011 15:14 fatalities wrote:
Can someone fill me in on what I can expect from early game scouting information, and proper reactions, especially in PvT and PvZ?
The only thing I learn from checking their gas is marauders/early pressure for Terran and speed for Zerg, but no timings or anything like that.
I don't really know much else, though. I assume Terran is going for 1 base teching if they bunker up their main, but that was knowledge from a year ago, so I honestly don't know anything from my early scout (except if I scout obvious things like 6pool, 2rax, etc).
I'm in plat, btw.


You need more details in regard to your pvz. Are you opening up gateway core or ffe? There's slightly more info you gotta scout for in ffe. You need to scout if they mine more than 100 gas and if they expand before 4:00 to look out for a roach rush. If you see no expo @ 4:00, then something is fishy.

In pvt, I scout for gas, gas timing (did he gas first?), and what add on. If I see anything that doesn't look like a 2 rax, reactor first, I always open 1 gate FE. You can hold pretty much anything with a 1 gate FE except 2 rax reactor first.


thanks!
I FFE pretty much everywhere except XelNaga and sometimes Shattered Temple.
Also, as a more general question, I have a tendency to go on a long winstreak when I'm focused and play myself up to high plat, but then I'll stop, and the next day I'll just start losing a few because (I'm guessing) I'm getting close or overshot where I should be, then I go on tilt and lose myself back to low plat. How can I prevent that?
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
December 12 2011 20:43 GMT
#2664
I'm having issued defending a nexus first vs Terran. If they go for some sort of conc shell pressure, and I know it's coming, should I chrono out zealots or stalkers? And am I pulling probes to save my nat at all costs?

Recently I've been pulling the probes at my nat back to my main and then trying to build up a decent gateway force, but they can usually just micro and snipe my nexus anyway...
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France2034 Posts
December 12 2011 21:29 GMT
#2665
On December 13 2011 05:43 mizU wrote:
I'm having issued defending a nexus first vs Terran. If they go for some sort of conc shell pressure, and I know it's coming, should I chrono out zealots or stalkers? And am I pulling probes to save my nat at all costs?

Recently I've been pulling the probes at my nat back to my main and then trying to build up a decent gateway force, but they can usually just micro and snipe my nexus anyway...


[G] Axslav's Nexus First PvT

This guide is pretty well written. Says here you should zealot zealot stalker stalker.
geiko.813 (EU)
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
December 12 2011 21:40 GMT
#2666
I want to learn how to play way more agressive, especially vs Terran I feel like a sitting duck untill I am almost maxed.

Are there any high pressure builds around that work really well but allow for macro?
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
Angel_
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1617 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 22:21:55
December 12 2011 21:45 GMT
#2667
Edit:

I r just a dumb.

4 immortals, five colossi, +1 and that's it vs 3/3, and he had a base I didn't know about. Granted dropping and harassing would have helped, but...merp.
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
December 12 2011 21:48 GMT
#2668
On December 13 2011 06:45 Angel_ wrote:
So.
I have a general question when dealing with zerg.

I decided to try just turtling like mad on 2-3 bases and harrass and bug the shit out of him with five phoenixes until I was maxed/until my phoenixes couldn't really do anything because of mass hydras and spores and queens. It pushed him into straight Roach/hydra with some infestors.

I made a 200/200 army with 11 gateways to reinforce with with 6 colossus, maybe six immortals, then half the gateway was stalkers and the other half zealots basically, with a few sentries purely for guardian shield.

My army beats his, but then he remaxes on roaches almost immediately and rolls me over by rallying roaches over and over till all my stuff is dead and just walks through my bases.

other than having a fourth up at that point and established and even MORE gateways, what could i have done to stop this? maybe dropped a little more after my phoenixes were no good to strangle him so he couldn't reinforce?


Sounds like you really need a replay. A maxed army consisting of 6 colossi and 6 immortals with constant gateway reinforcements is pretty much invincible to streams of roaches. So basically there's something in that game that you're not describing well to us.
Moderator
Bedrock
Profile Joined October 2010
United States395 Posts
December 12 2011 21:57 GMT
#2669
On Dec 12 2011 16:45<span style='color:#d20000'> (10 min)</span> Angel_ wrote:
So.
I have a general question when dealing with zerg.

I decided to try just turtling like mad on 2-3 bases and harrass and bug the shit out of him with five phoenixes until I was maxed/until my phoenixes couldn't really do anything because of mass hydras and spores and queens. It pushed him into straight Roach/hydra with some infestors.

I made a 200/200 army with 11 gateways to reinforce with with 6 colossus, maybe six immortals, then half the gateway was stalkers and the other half zealots basically, with a few sentries purely for guardian shield.

My army beats his, but then he remaxes on roaches almost immediately and rolls me over by rallying roaches over and over till all my stuff is dead and just walks through my bases.

other than having a fourth up at that point and established and even MORE gateways, what could i have done to stop this? maybe dropped a little more after my phoenixes were no good to strangle him so he couldn't reinforce?


6 colossi, 6 immortals.. this just sounds like it's bad positioning and/or possibly not enough upgrades. A replay would help for evaluation.
eSports or die tryin'
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
December 12 2011 22:04 GMT
#2670
On December 13 2011 06:45 Angel_ wrote:
So.
I have a general question when dealing with zerg.

I decided to try just turtling like mad on 2-3 bases and harrass and bug the shit out of him with five phoenixes until I was maxed/until my phoenixes couldn't really do anything because of mass hydras and spores and queens. It pushed him into straight Roach/hydra with some infestors.

I made a 200/200 army with 11 gateways to reinforce with with 6 colossus, maybe six immortals, then half the gateway was stalkers and the other half zealots basically, with a few sentries purely for guardian shield.

My army beats his, but then he remaxes on roaches almost immediately and rolls me over by rallying roaches over and over till all my stuff is dead and just walks through my bases.

other than having a fourth up at that point and established and even MORE gateways, what could i have done to stop this? maybe dropped a little more after my phoenixes were no good to strangle him so he couldn't reinforce?


Post a replay man, Roach/Hydra doesn't stand a chance against what you had. (in you really had that many colo/immo)
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
December 12 2011 23:06 GMT
#2671
On December 13 2011 00:43 morlakaix wrote:
this is going to seem like a really dumb question, but im going to ask it anyway


this is assuming you do the standard wall off pylon in the back, cybercore/gatewall with zealot block

but in PvZ I have been relocating my cyber core so my units can get through the ramp to my main while Z is harassing with mutas, I used to get really god damn annoyed (before i started getting fast storm, with fast storm its pretty ezpz to hold, diamond muta micro is pretty bad lol) trying to get my blink stalkers into my base and fending off the mutas....wondering if anyone else has done this

obviously if you Forge FE its a lot easier since you're not going to wall at the ramp anyway, but on maps like Xel'Naga (i dont FFE, but meh) or antiga(again I dont FFE here) I see myself moving my cybercore a lot,


anyway just wondering, pretty simple


So what's the actual question? :p I'd advise you to wall off anyway at your ramp because it's simply a lot safer against early zergling aggression. If you see mutas feel free to destroy the gate or cyber core, it's just 150 minerals.
I am Latedi.
imEnex
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada500 Posts
December 13 2011 03:13 GMT
#2672
In PvZ, what units are good against roach/hydralisk?
Program yourself to Success
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France2034 Posts
December 13 2011 03:19 GMT
#2673
On December 13 2011 12:13 imEnex wrote:
In PvZ, what units are good against roach/hydralisk?


Colossus stalker sentry.
If you have a few immortals in there it's good as well.
geiko.813 (EU)
imEnex
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada500 Posts
December 13 2011 03:22 GMT
#2674
On December 13 2011 12:19 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 12:13 imEnex wrote:
In PvZ, what units are good against roach/hydralisk?


Colossus stalker sentry.
If you have a few immortals in there it's good as well.


How about chargelot included as well, and should I go for colossus first, and when I start seeing alot of immortals transition into immortals? Also, once a Zerg gets Hive and gets infestor/broodlords, what units are good for that? Archon,stalker?
Program yourself to Success
Darkness2k11
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Chile313 Posts
December 13 2011 03:37 GMT
#2675
On December 13 2011 12:22 imEnex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 12:19 Geiko wrote:
On December 13 2011 12:13 imEnex wrote:
In PvZ, what units are good against roach/hydralisk?


Colossus stalker sentry.
If you have a few immortals in there it's good as well.


How about chargelot included as well, and should I go for colossus first, and when I start seeing alot of immortals transition into immortals? Also, once a Zerg gets Hive and gets infestor/broodlords, what units are good for that? Archon,stalker?


Chargelots are pretty bad against roach/hydra (they are pretty good as harassing tools with warp prisms tho), against infestor brood lord you want a mothership and archons (archon toilet is really good against air units), storm, blink stalkers and collosus are really good in PvZ late game as well.
When Behind, Dark Shrine
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France2034 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 03:42:43
December 13 2011 03:41 GMT
#2676
On December 13 2011 12:22 imEnex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 12:19 Geiko wrote:
On December 13 2011 12:13 imEnex wrote:
In PvZ, what units are good against roach/hydralisk?


Colossus stalker sentry.
If you have a few immortals in there it's good as well.


How about chargelot included as well, and should I go for colossus first, and when I start seeing alot of immortals transition into immortals? Also, once a Zerg gets Hive and gets infestor/broodlords, what units are good for that? Archon,stalker?


Zealots are aweful, and defeat the purpose of FFing units away. Use your minerals to make expansions and cannons.

The order in which you get your stuff depends on the build you are using, there are quite a few good threads on TL about things you can do after an FFE to end up with such a unit composition.

Against hive tech, you want stargate tech. Mainly a couple of void rays and a mothership with some archons.

Late game arly composition against roach/broodlord/infestor should be mothership, 4 or 5 archons, 2 or 3 colossi, 2 or 3 sentries, 3 or 4 HT for storm/feedback and the rest in blink stalkers.
geiko.813 (EU)
imEnex
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada500 Posts
December 13 2011 03:47 GMT
#2677
On December 13 2011 12:41 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 12:22 imEnex wrote:
On December 13 2011 12:19 Geiko wrote:
On December 13 2011 12:13 imEnex wrote:
In PvZ, what units are good against roach/hydralisk?


Colossus stalker sentry.
If you have a few immortals in there it's good as well.


How about chargelot included as well, and should I go for colossus first, and when I start seeing alot of immortals transition into immortals? Also, once a Zerg gets Hive and gets infestor/broodlords, what units are good for that? Archon,stalker?


Zealots are aweful, and defeat the purpose of FFing units away. Use your minerals to make expansions and cannons.

The order in which you get your stuff depends on the build you are using, there are quite a few good threads on TL about things you can do after an FFE to end up with such a unit composition.

Against hive tech, you want stargate tech. Mainly a couple of void rays and a mothership with some archons.

Late game arly composition against roach/broodlord/infestor should be mothership, 4 or 5 archons, 2 or 3 colossi, 2 or 3 sentries, 3 or 4 HT for storm/feedback and the rest in blink stalkers.


Thank you, sad how the mothership is leaving in the expansion T_T. Also, I've been 3gate sentry expanding lately, need to master FFE soon.
Program yourself to Success
dama
Profile Joined August 2011
19 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 06:58:43
December 13 2011 06:58 GMT
#2678
PvZ on Antiga

How do you deal with early pool if you are going into the game with FFE in mind?

What I'm thinking is just when I scout the early pool I have to retreat to the top of the ramp and do a 1-3 gate expand. Or should I not open FFE on Antiga?
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
December 13 2011 12:22 GMT
#2679
On December 13 2011 15:58 dama wrote:
PvZ on Antiga

How do you deal with early pool if you are going into the game with FFE in mind?

What I'm thinking is just when I scout the early pool I have to retreat to the top of the ramp and do a 1-3 gate expand. Or should I not open FFE on Antiga?


To begin with you have to wall at where your nexus will be, the ramp is hard to hold and cannon if the zerg tries to be aggressive on one base. Then as normal you can't hold the low ground with the forge FE if you are up against some 6pool etc. What you can do if you get a cannon up in time is to wall to make it a smaller choke at the ramp/cannon and then send probes to block the entrance and protect the cannon.
I am Latedi.
OxyFuel
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada195 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 23:50:16
December 13 2011 23:49 GMT
#2680
On December 13 2011 15:58 dama wrote:
PvZ on Antiga

How do you deal with early pool if you are going into the game with FFE in mind?

What I'm thinking is just when I scout the early pool I have to retreat to the top of the ramp and do a 1-3 gate expand. Or should I not open FFE on Antiga?


Make sure that when you scout, if you don't find zerg on the first base you go 13 forge and scout with that 2nd probe. If you see an earlier pool (like 10 pool) you throw down a cannon or two asap and bring a few probes out to block/slow down lings so the cannon can kill more of them. 14 pool finishes at 2:40 (I think) so if it's done a while before that it's an eary pool
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